My response to Chance’s comment: I appreciate reading others thoughts on these prophecies.
About the times of the End, a body of men will be raised up who will turn their attention to the prophecies, and insist upon their literal interpretation, in the midst of much clamor and opposition. Sir Isaac Newton
Regarding Chance’s “EAR and Daniel’s 70th Week Post”
EAR and Daniel's 70th Week (fivedoves.com)
Where EAR has posted several responses including:
Reply to Chance (26 March 2023) Daniel's 70th Week (fivedoves.com)
Free Book - The Curse and the Covenant (fivedoves.com)
Chance - where to begin. Let’s begin with EAR’s seven events from Daniel 9:24:
1. Seventy weeks are determined for your people and for your holy city
2. to finish the transgression,
3. to make an end of sins,
4. to make reconciliation for iniquity,
5. to bring in everlasting righteousness,
6. to seal up vision and prophecy,
7. and to anoint the Most Holy.
EAR’s thoughts were that the last six events were fulfilled with Jesus Christ circa 30 AD while the first event was fulfilled with Steven circa 34 AD.
My thoughts are all these events will be fulfilled at the same time, at the end of time, when eternity begins. At that moment, the one week, seven thousand year covenant between God and the many children of God which permitted them to be saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ our Lord will come to an end. This covenant will have lasted its allotted time and be complete. It wil be finished. Remember, one week in Heaven is like seven thousand years on Earth.
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. II Peter 3:8
Eight (8) pictured sideways is the symbol for eternity. Eight in the book “Arithmetic of God” means “New Birth”. It states, “When the new heaven and the new earth shall come, there will be no more death. "And there shall be no more death," (Revelation 21:4)”. That is also why I think the correct count for these listed events is eight instead of seven. But more importantly, number one above contains two distinct events. First, seventy weeks are determined for the tribe of Judah. Second, seventy weeks are determined for the city of Jerusalem.
1. Seventy weeks are determined for your people – then Judah as a tribe will cease to exist
2. and for your holy city – then Jerusalem will cease to exist
3. to finish the transgression, - all transgressions against God will be finished
4. to make an end of sins, - all sinning will end
5. to make reconciliation for iniquity, - The White Throne Judgment will reconcile iniquity
6. to bring in everlasting righteousness, - Only in eternity will righteousness be everlasting
7. to seal up vision and prophecy, - all earthly visions and prophecies will be sealed forever
8. and to anoint the Most Holy. – The New Jerusalem will be anointed
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. Revelation 21:2
Remember, Daniel is in anguish as recorded in Daniel 9:2-20. He is speaking, and praying, and confessing his sins and the sins of his people, the tribe of Judah. He has counted the 70 years of desolations of Jerusalem as foretold by the prophet Jeremiah and his people are still captive and their holy city is still desolate. What is to become of his people and Jerusalem? Is this the end of both? Gabriel answers that he has come to give Daniel skill and understanding.
His people and their holy city will not perish after 70 years but seven times 70 years. This is a seven fold increase in the amount of time determined both for Daniel’s people and their holy city. The book “Arithmetic of God” has the meaning of 70 times 7 as ‘Israel’s Complete and Final Restoration’. Jesus Christ uses 70 x 7 as an analogy for how long our Heavenly Father will forgive His children and for those with ears to hear a reference directly back to Daniel 9:24.
Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven. Matthew 18:22
Notwithstanding the seven fold avengement and then the seventy times seven fold avengement.
If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold. Genesis 4:24
But Gabriel isn’t finished. Otherwise, Daniel might conclude both the tribe of Judah and the city of Jerusalem only had 490 years left when over half the time was still left with God’s 7000 year covenant with the many. Adding 490 years to when Gabriel delivered the first part of the message before 532 B.C. and time runs out before the seed of the woman from the tribe of Judah through David and Nathan was anointed with the Word of God and conceived as the God-man Jesus Christ, Messiah.
When Was the Book of Daniel Written? – Christian Apologist (christian-apologist.com)
The book of Daniel begins in 604 B.C., which is eighteen years prior to the destruction of the first Temple in 586 B.C. Daniel and several other young men (1:4) were deported from Judah to Babylon under King Nebuchadnezzar. The book ends two years after the seventy years of exile in 532 B.C.
One can arguably take 604 BC as the beginning of the times of the gentiles over Jerusalem and the tribe of Judah. We know these times end when Jerusalem is no longer trodden under foot by the gentiles. Nebuchadnezzar’s statue in Daniel 2 is often given as a picture representation of the times of the gentiles. Taking a year for a day in a 360 day year brings us to 360 years. Multiplying by a seven fold avenging by God for Judah’s wickness and disobedience brings us to 2520 years. Adding these to 604 BC (-603 for no 0 year) results in the year 1917. That year saw General Allenby of the British Empire take Jerusalem from the Ottoman Empire without firing a shot. The just ended Islamic year was 1335. The story is quite remarkable.
Events in Jerusalem, 1917, as Foretold in the Bible - ONE FOR ISRAEL Ministry
Considering the 50 year Jubilee return of the land, that would be 1967. But I digress.
I have found unfortunately as a general rule that those most studied in Daniel’s 70 week prophecy, I perhaps should say those most studied in others interpretations of Daniel’s 60 week prophecy, are the least likely to confess that Jesus became Messiah at conception.
Yes, Jesus can be said to have been anointed numerous times after God anointed the seed of woman with the Word of God at conception. But Christians I’ve asked who have not studied prophecy, some have never read any part of Revelation, will instinctly say He became Messiah, became Christ, at His conception. Which, by the way, agrees with scripture.
For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. Luke 2:11
Chief among the various Daniel 70 week interpretations which deny Jesus BECAME Messiah at conception point to the anointing by John the Baptist in water baptism or the immediately following anointing by God in Holy Spirit baptism. Although, Sir Robert Anderson in “The Coming Prince” put Jesus becoming Christ on Palm Sunday when the crowds ‘anointed’ Him King.
What I think Sir Robert Anderson got right was understanding that 360-day ‘Babylonian’ years needed to be used for the 70 weeks. He also apparently understand at least in part the parenthetical dichotomy between christ and antichrist in Daniel 9:25-26. To point, the title of his book “The Coming Prince” I’ve read referred not to Jesus Christ but to antichrist. Something I didn’t fully understand or at least didn’t want to consider back in 2004 when I wrote “Passion, Power, and Glory – Watching for the Return of the Prince of Peace”.
Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. Daniel 9:25-26
Another favorite interpretation is placing no gap in time between the delineated 62 and 7 weeks in the first parenthetical sentence but placing a gap leading up to the remaining week. Or worse, leaving no gap leading up to the 70th week but creating a gap within the 70th week where no gap is made in scripture.
Also common is that the commandment to restore was the same commandment to build. Yet, no commandment was given by a Gentile king restoring Jerusalem to Judah. For that matter, Jerusalem was not restored fully to Judah till 1967 during the 6-day war.
For another matter, no command was given by a Gentile king requiring Judah to build. Nehemiah gave the commandment as appointed governor to build Jerusalem. 62 weeks (434 days) of 360-day years later, Jesus Christ was conceived. My calculations would this around 2/22 (Julian), 2/20 (Gregorian), 5 BC and His birth around Kislev 28, 5 BC with the cutting off of His foreskin 8 days later, but not for Himself.
Two days of 1,000 360-day years (after 2 days he will revive us) brings us to June 7, 1967 and the command from Moshe Dayan to take Jerusalem for Israel and Judah during the 6-day Psalm 83 war.
After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight. Hosea 6:2
Various interpretations want to change Holy Scripture to better fit their interpretation by no longer saying after 62 weeks (threescore and two) but after 69 weeks “shall Messiah be cut off “. As if there was an error in Scripture that needs to be corrected by adding the 7 weeks to the 62 weeks to get 69 weeks. They then need to take the “cut off” which literally means the cutting of flesh as in the cutting off of the foreskin in circumcision, and make it mean something differently. After 62 weeks not 69 was Messiah circumcised (covenant entering foreskin cut off). Although, as is noted Messiah was circumcised “not for himself”. He did not need to enter a covenant relationship with God. He IS God.
That leaves both 7 weeks to be counted from 6/7/1967 and by default, one week to be counted after the millennial reign.
If anything can be said about whether a certain prophetic interpretation is correct is whether it is predictive of events before they come to pass. From the “Events in 1917” link above:
Dr H. Aldersmith, who had been studying the prophecies regarding Israel. Aldersmith explained in his book from 1898, The Fullness of the Nations, that he believed Jerusalem would be delivered by Great Britain in 1917 [2]. He had become convinced from Isaiah 31:4-5 that the UK would have a part to play in the restoration of Jerusalem, and that it would be accomplished by some kind of flying machine [3].
In like fashion, the interpretation the seven week segment in Daniel’s 70 week prophecy began June 7, 1967 and would end exactly 17,640 days later was put forth at least as far back as 2003. That this would be an anointing of a Prince by another considered greater than themselves was also recognized. That this would not be Jesus Christ was not realized and did not become evident till only 7 prophetic years before the event. This realization was rather sobering.
We can now confirm with the passing of time the dual but opposite natures, the dichotomy of the prophecy, and identity of Messiah and antimessiah contained in Daniel’s 70 week prophecy. We appear to now be in the 21 year period of time known as Jacob’s Troubles.
Below is a link to a post I made to 5 Doves in 2008 regarding the fulfillment of the 7 weeks of Daniel’s 70 weeks counting backward one week based on assuming a 7 year tribulation. Although the events that came to pass at the end of October 2008 made it quite evident there was a dichotomy in Daniel’s 70 week prophecy. The original post has been archived. Thankfully, it was resubmitted with his comment and highlights in 2011 by BG Ellis.
When is Jesus Returning? “The Answer is 42!” (fivedoves.com)
Shalom,
Ted Porter