Lauren (29 Nov 2011) "re: Ted Porter "Rightly Dividing Daniel's 70 Weeks"
In reference to:
Ted Porter (28 Nov 2011) "Rightly Dividing Daniel's 70 Weeks"
First off – Many thanks for the response! Often times we make posts that we feel were inspired by the Holy Spirit and we get no responses, good, bad, or indifferent. In the flesh, many of us may feel disappointed, but I personally just want to be faithful to the Holy Spirit, regardless of response. But then, if there were more than one response I’d probably not have time to respond. But still, thanks for the response.
What I didn’t mention is all the calendar calculations can be verified using the online calendar converter:
And although I will state that at the beginning of all the date equivalents in my post were the year in AD or BC, for BC dates such as 5 BC, the Gregorian date, not the Julian, is shown which will show up for 5 BC as -4. The Gregorian is closest to the solar so I did’t bother with Julian. Also, I’m using the calendar converter above’s convention of negative numbers instead of BC since Gregorian dates did not exist back then and Julian made the mistake of not have a 0 year, so it is perfectly fine for the Gregorian to correct this oversight and have -4 equal 5 BC.
I also noticed the Ariel, 10 pt formatting was making double spaces in the post so the lines are spaced out farther than expected so I’ll try Times New Roman, 14 pt and see if that makes a difference.
Now on to the points. You stated:
If your following quote is true; Yeshua/Jesus would have had to been born on 15 Tishri 3757 or September 14, 4BC, and John would have been preaching in the 'TWELFTH YEAR" of the reign of Tiberius.
"5 BC - Jesus Christ, Son of Man and the only begotten Son of God, the Word of God conceived through the power of the Holy Ghost (Tuesday, -4 February 20 Gr, -680352 MJ, 3756 Adar 14 He, 220.127.116.11.6 MLC)"
Okay, using the calendar converter link above I find September 14 in Gregorian which is September 16 in Julian, in 4 BC to be Elul 24, 3757. That doesn’t match up at all to 15 Tishri 3757. So, putting 15 Tishri 3757 into the calendar converter I get September 14 Gr, 16 Julian in 5 BC. That is probably what you meant. Problem is from February 20th, 5 BC (Gr) to September 14th, 5 BC (which is -680145 MJ sequential) we would only 680352 – 680145 = 207 days = 29 ½ weeks while full gestation is 40 weeks. I personally believe he came in the fullness of time. Anyway, regardless, my position as stated in the post, although near the bottom, was that Jesus Christ was born:
5 BC: Birth date (Tuesday, -4 November 26 Gr, -680072 MJ, 3757 Kislev 28 He, 18.104.22.168.6 MLC)
Now, as I understand your position, John the Baptist was over 30 years of age in the 15th year of Tiberius and the first year of Tiberius began September 18, 14 AD and ended September 18, 15 AD. That would make the 15th year, 14 years in the future so between September 18, 28 AD and 29 AD. Counting backward 30 years brings us to (no 0 year) 28 – 30 -1 = September 3 BC – September 2 BC. (If you look up Tishri 15, 3760 which you calculate in your post up on the calendar converter you will find this was in 2 BC and not 1 BC or 1 AD.)
Okay, that’s what the calcs show. Requiring John the Baptist to be over 30 years old does not mean he was 30 years old, just that he was over 30 years old. Actually I see this as quite a problem if one is trying to get to between 1 BC and 1 AD but no problem at all if one is trying to get between 5 BC and 4 BC. John the Baptist could have easily been 32 years old which qualifies as older than 30 years of age when he began his ministry and that would give a date between September 18, 5 BC and September 18, 4 BC. Having a birthdate of November 26, 5 BC would fall between those dates.
Admittedly, back in the 1990’s I used to defend a 32 AD date for Christ’s crucifixion with Marilyn Agee who would defend a 30 AD date. I brought up exactly the same point of the 15th year of Tiberius counting from 14 AD. Her response was that Tiberius became coregent in 12 AD so the proper count should be from 12 AD not 14 AD. Not a bad point. Don’t know if I’d say this was the definitive absolute final word on this though.
Of course, I could see arguing that John the Baptist was over 30 years of age when he began his ministry because “rabbinical protocol” called for it may not be that strong of an argument. The Pharisee’s were constantly after Jesus Christ because according to their “rabbinical protocol” Jesus Christ was often breaking the Sabbath. However, Jesus Christ kept God’s law as recorded in the Word of God, including the Sabbath, perfectly and recognized man’s law for what it was, man’s law. I think a stronger argument would be that those called into service at the original tabernacle were between 30 and 50 years old. So by this example we would expect John the Baptist to follow this example. But again, John was not following priestly duties to the temple exactly in the desert.
We know that Jesus was around 30 years old though when He began His ministry.
And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli, Luke 4:1
I’d like to think that means 30 years +/- 1 year but some could argue +/- 5. I wouldn’t though as 30 years fits my chronology. We have the witness of Josephus saying Jesus Christ was born 40 years before 70 AD and the census by Augustus Caesar recorded as being in 6 BC which pretty much gives us a window where Jesus being 30, within a year, fits. I know that regardless of the majority of historians agreeing that Pilate died in late March, early April of 4 BC is not going to convince someone who has another underlying basis that the Julian calendar say has year 1 as when Jesus was born, which is correct. Then everything else must be conformed to that basic truth. My basic truth is now that the times of the Gentiles is two times 1,000 times 360 days.
I also know there is a lot of disagreement about when Jesus was born and when He died. For me, I concentrated much time the past 20 years trying to figure out decisively exactly when He died. I now realize I concentrated all this effort at the wrong date. I should have been looking at His conception. Now I know two thousand 360-day years before 6/7/1967 nails it.
Until very recently I had held that Jesus became Messiah either right after His water baptism when He was anointed with the Holy Spirit or on the original Palm Sunday. This is what is commonly taught. This is also the key to determining the dates to count to Messiah in Daniel’s 70 week prophecy. Once I realized that Messiah means Christ which means anointed and the body of Jesus was anointed at conception with the Word of God through the power of the Holy Ghost, the whole chronology fell into place.