Brother Riley,
You framed this as a debate, so this is my response to your ‘Farce’ post found here:
http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/sep2011/fmriley96.htm
Pass Away
When Jesus said, “Heaven and earth shall ‘pass away’ but my Words shall not pass away.” He did not intend for it to mean ‘heaven shall pass by the earth’ as you plainly contend. In fact, the focus of His Words in that context was His Word, and not a specific near-earth fly-by of a comet or any other celestial object. You know by the Spirit of God that interpretation cannot be true. That twinge in your spirit is convicting you that Jesus certainly was not referring to Niburu when he made that statement. Jesus was using the accepted exemplars, which are the regularity of the heavens and the solid ground of earth, to exemplify how much more His WORDS will still be standing even when the heaven AND the earth are destroyed and FORGOTTEN!
Isa 65:17 KJV - For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth and the former shall not be remembered nor come into mind.
Psa 102:26-27 KJV - They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed: But thou [art] the same, and thy years shall have no end.
Brother Riley, I believe the passage in Matthew 24:35 is only intended to be referencing the time when the heaven and earth PERISH. In fact, the Bible gives the specific time when Jesus’ Words are fulfilled EXACTLY:
Brother John the Revelator, exiled on that tiny Greek isle of Patmos, penned these Words:
Rev 21:1 KJV - And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away (Strong’s G3928 parerchomai); and there was no more sea.
When does the first heaven and first earth ‘pass away’? Five verses earlier in Revelation 20:11 at the GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT. It is not Elenin or Planet X or Niburu that causes the heaven and earth to flee, IT IS THE FACE OF HIM ON THE THRONE which causes the heaven and earth to perish!
Rev 20:11 KJV - And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Paul reiterates Isaiah the prophet:
2Pe 3:10-13 KJV - [10] But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. [11] [Seeing] then [that] all these things shall be dissolved, what manner [of persons] ought ye to be in [all] holy conversation and godliness, [12] Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? [13] Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Brother Riley, I also believe the Lord’s coming is imminent based on the signs of the times. I believe the description of Revelation 8: 6-12 is describing a super volcanic eruption and an asteroid or cometary object also falling to earth. However, I do not believe there is a brown dwarf Niburu currently coursing through our inner solar system. There is no evidence of it. Other than Zecharia Sitchin’s original interpretation of some ancient Sumerian tablets (and the perpetuation of the story on the internet) how would we even know about Niburu???? His interpretation of that Sumerian text also contradicts the Biblical Genesis creation account, so how could you believe anything else he says regarding the mythical Niburu????? If there was an object the size of Jupiter coursing towards earth immanently, it would also be big news in the world of astronomy, yet there is silence from the entire astronomical community, except for legitimate refutations of its existence. Even pagans can’t be silenced if they know a truth. Are all the astronomers paid off for their silence?
Have you ever consulted an amateur or professional astronomer? Lean not on your own understanding, consider wise council, etc. the Bible says. Find somebody like Ph.D. Martin Gaskell, a real astronomer who was discriminated against for being a Christian, and a creationist believer. There are many other Christian astronomers as well. Jesus said, (paraphrasing) ‘if a man compels thee to go a mile, go with him two’. I’m compelling you to consult an actual professional astronomer or two as wise council.
Clay Tablets
About 3,630 years ago by the median date there was another clay tablet, called the ‘Venus tablet of Ammisaduqa’ that was reproduced over the centuries. The earliest copy of the text (7th century BC) is still on display in the British Museum. It records the observations of the ancient Babylonian astronomers over a 21 year period, the movement of Venus and other celestial observations. It specifically dates certain appearances of the morning star planet (Venus) over that period. Now there is no way they could have known modern astronomical measurements, yet their observations when averaged, equal exactly within seconds the same average orbital periods of the Sun, Moon, Earth and Venus as we have today. The median date of those tablets is 1646 BC starting through 1625 BC ending. 2011 minus 3630 puts the supposed Niburu sighting by the Sumerians at 1620-1619BC, some 5 years or so after the Ammisduqa tablets were completed. Yet this ‘gigantic’ brown dwarf had ‘zero’ effect on the orbital parameters of the Sun, Moon, Earth and Venus. Their recordings were based on the same Hebrew calendar lunar month (29.53888 days). A 583.9202 day conjunction period of the earth, sun and Venus as measured 5-6 years before Niburu ‘passed by’ is still the same today, 3635-36 years later. The disruptions claimed by the Sumerian tablet, if it was properly interpreted, were nothing more than local weather, likely a tornado which could have been accompanied by a celestial object only coincidentally.
When We Disagree
Brother Riley, to quote your question, “When we disagree, just as members of any family will disagree from time to time, is it necessary to cut one another down, to speak to one another and about one another and against one another viciously and meanly and hatefully?”
Was it not mean or a cut-down when you said this? “Who has egg on their face now?”
What about this comment? “If I could buy some of these proud hearted “know-it-alls” for what they are really worth, and sell them for what they think they are worth, I would never have to be concerned with funds for the Lord’s work again.” Are you implying someone is worthless because they shared with you a proven truth (prove all things) regarding sound in outer space? Would you rather consult the pagan Sumerians from 3,630 years ago than a fellow Christian?
How can you rail against know-it-alls when you are so unequivocal about your own prophetic interpretations? Why, when anyone disagrees with the Niburu conspiracy, are they considered a ‘Wicked Unbeliever’? I just don’t understand the equality you seem to place with your personal prophetic interpretations (Niburu) and true Biblical salvation. Those two things are separate issues. I don’t claim to understand all things prophetic. We will know for certain after it happens, for now we see through a glass darkly as Paul says.
In Christ,
Kevin Heckle