Pastor Bob's "In Christ" series teaching on Salvation is Wrong See "In Christ" #3 & 4 - http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/sep2014/sep_21_2014.htm His teaching on the "Baptism of the Spirit" is unscriptural. We are baptised into the Body of Christ and sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise the moment we receive Christ as Savior. This is also the "Baptism of the Holy Spirit". The Bible teaches there is only one baptism - Eph. 4:5. A Christian CANNOT lose their salvation as he teaches. We are secure in Him for I am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I've committed unto Him against that day - 2 Tim. 1:12. Pastor Bob teaches that once we are saved we can chose to walk away from Christ and lose our salvation. Ask yourself......how do you know your saving faith will hold? How do you know that you will not, at some later time, reject Christ and turn? I'm sure you've heard about others who have. These are "Professors" and not "Possessers" - (*see below). The bible declares - "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us" (John 2:19). What exactly is "saving faith"? It simply means believing and receiving Christ as savior and the moment we receive Him we are sealed by the precious Holy Spirit. It is an irrevocable decision. That seal indicates ownership. We are bought and paid for by the death and resurrection of Christ and He will in no wise cast us out. We may fall out of fellowship with Him, but His corrective measures will prevail upon us. Whom the Lord loves He chastens. It is not a pleasant experience, but it His faithfulness and love for us that brings correction. So, to answer my question as to how do you know for sure you will stay saved if by your "free will of choice" you chose to walk away as Pastor Bob explains - the answer is you don't know! To say otherwise would be presumptous faith and a fleshly pride to the absolute extreme. Your faith then is in your faith rather than fully in Christ. What kind of comfort and assurance is there with the knowledge of not knowing if you'll make it to heaven for sure? That is not the kind of gospel/salvation message the Bible teaches. There was a time when this truth really came home for me. We had a visiting Pastor in our home, and I asked him about eternal security - whether we could lose our salvation or not. Amazingly, he responded with "I know for sure I will not lose my salvation - I am secure in Him, but others could lose their salvation." Surprised? Believe it or not many believe this way. They them- selves are priviledged in the confidence they will make it, but others may not know. What kind of foolishness and deception is that? To be born-again means to have a new nature - literally, the nature of Christ - the "new Adam". The old nature (old Adam) we are to reckon dead and then we are to reckon ourselves alive unto Christ. Positionally, our old man is dead but in our present state he is very much alive - only we are to reckon it dead - (*see below). We are alive unto God through Christ because of the new birth and in our present state we are to walk accordingly - as those who are alive in Him, yielded and walking in obedience to His word. This is our sanctification. If we yield to the "old man"we cannot please God, but the new man is focused on God and serving Him. Our walk alone determines our heavenly and eternal rewards or loss thereof - not our salvation for that is secure in Christ for because He lives we shall live also with Him forever. We are exhorted to "enter into His Rest"- Heb. 4:9-10. We CANNOT find that rest in Him without having solid foundational teachings about our eternal security. Instead, you'll be struggling to keep your salvation secure "in Him", comfortless and not knowing if you will succeed to the end or not, that is unless your self- righteous presumptous faith tells you otherwise, as stated above. We should, instead, be confident - knowing without doubt His faithfulness to us and His keeping power. Jesus will not lose one of His sheep. Jesus does not fail. It is not Jesus and me - it is Jesus period. He alone saves and His salvation is eternal which can only mean once and for all! To doubt His keeping power and promises prevents you from entering His "perfect rest". The word states plainly that there is a "rest" for the people of God". We are to see that we enter that rest and not be persuaded otherwise. That rest entails absolute belief in Jesus and His completed and finished work for us - an established fact that cannot change. How we walk in the knowledge of that completion and finished work will determine how we will be judged at the Judgement Seat of Christ - not our salvation. We need to abide in Christ for apart from Him we can do nothing. This means that our good works will depend upon Christ's grace and power working in us and our yielding in obedience to Him - not by our self-produced effort but rather through the leading power of Jesus. Our works will be judged at the Judgement Seat of Christ and whether we receive a reward or not will be determined by fire. If our works burn up we will suffer loss, if they don't we will receive a reward. Some will be saved as by fire only - but, they will be saved. We work because of the glorious free gift of salvation and His wonderful promises to us - not to keep or earn our salvation. I would encourage those who have questions or doubts about these teachings that you seek for yourself the absolute truth. You can find good, solid teaching on the internet regarding the above. Please don't take his word or my word on this very serious and important teaching - search for yourself and remember to "rightly divide the word of truth". Below are scripture verses depicting the difference between the believers "Standing and State" also "Professers and Possessors"................ FAIR USE FOR INFORMATION AND DISCUSSION PURPOSES THE BELIEVER'S STANDING AND STATE http://www.biblebelievers.com/scofield/scofield_rightly08.html "A distinction of vast importance to the right understanding of the Scriptures, especially of the Epistles, is that which concerns the standing or position of the believer, and his state, or walk. The first is the result of the work of Christ and is perfect and entire from the very moment that Christ is received by faith. Nothing in the afterlife of the believer adds in the smallest degree to his title of favor with God, nor to his perfect security. Through faith alone this standing before God is conferred, and before Him the weakest person, if he be but a true believer on the Lord Jesus Christ, has precisely the same title as the most illustrious saint. What that title or standing is, may be briefly seen from the following Scriptures: "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name" (John 1:12). "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God" (I John 5:1). "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint heirs with Christ" (Rom. 8:17). "To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time" 0 Pet. 1:4-5). "In whom also we have obtained an inheritance" (Eph. 1: 11). "Beloved, now are we the sons of God; and it doth not ye appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him" (I John 3:2). "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation" (I Pet. 2:9). "Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, and hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father" (Rev. 1:5-6). "And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power" (Col. 2: 10). "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: by whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God" (Rom. 5:1-2). "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John 3:16). "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life" (I John 5:13). "Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus" (Heb. 10: 19). "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all- spiritual blessings" (Eph. 1:3). "To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved" (Eph. 1:6). "But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ (by grace ye are saved), and hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Eph. 2:4-6). "But now, in Christ Jesus, ye who sometime were far off, are made nigh by the blood of Chfist" (Eph. 2:13). "In whom also, after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise" (Eph. 1: 13). "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body" (I Cor. 12:13). "For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones" (Eph. 5:30). "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost?" (I Cor. 6:19). Every one of these marvelous things is true of every believer on the Lord Jesus Christ. Not one item in this glorious inventory is said to be gained by prayer, or diligence in service, or churchgoing, or alms- giving, or self-denial, or holiness of life, or by any other description of good works. All are gifts of God through Christ and therefore belong equally to all believers. When the jailor of Philippi believed on the Lord Jesus Christ he became at once a child of God, a joint heir with Christ, a king and priest, and had the title to the incorruptible, undefiled, and unfading inheritance. In the instant that he believed with his heart and confessed with his mouth that Jesus was his Lord, he was justified from all things, had peace with God, a standing in His grace, and a sure hope of glory. He received the gift of eternal life, was made accepted in the full measure of Christ's own acceptance, was indwelt by, and sealed with the Holy Spirit, by whom also he was baptized into the mystical body of Christ- the church of God. Instantly he was clothed with the righteousness of God (Rom. 3:22), quickened with Christ, raised with Him, and in Him seated in the heavenlies. What his actual state may have been is quite another matter. Certainly it was far, far below his exalted standing in the sight of God. It was not all at once that he became as royal, priestly, and heavenly in walk as he was at once in standing. The following passages will indicate the way one's standing and one's state are constantly discriminated in the Scriptures. STANDING "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus . . . I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ that in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge; even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you: so that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ" (I Cor. 1:2-9). "But ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God" (I Cor. 6:11). "Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ?" (I Cor. 6:15). "And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven" (Matt. 16:17). "Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son" (Col. 1: 12-13). STATE "For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you" (I Cor. 1:11). "And 1, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal . . . For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?" (I Cor. 3:1-3). "Now some are puffed up" (I Cor. 4:18). "And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you" (I Cor. 5:2). "Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another" (I Cor. 6:7). "Shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot?" (I Cor. 6:15). "But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan; for thou art an offence unto me; for thou savorest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men" (Matt. 16:23). "But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds" (Col. 3:8-9). The student cannot fail to notice that the divine order, under grace, is first to give the highest possible standing and then to exhort the believer to maintain a state in accordance therewith. The beggar is lifted up from the dung-hill and set among princes (I Sam. 2:8), and then exhorted to be princely. As examples, see the following verses. STANDING "Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed" (Rom. 6:6). "Ye are the light of the world" (Matt. 5:14). "Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began" (2 Tim. 1:9). "And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Eph. 2:6). "When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory" (Col. 3:4). "For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord" (Eph. 5:8). "Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness" (I Thess. 5:5). "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him" (I Thess. 5:9-10). "By the which will we are sanctified, through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Heb. 10:10). "But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us . . . sanctification" (I Cor. 1:30). "For by one offering he hath perfected forever them that are sanctified" (Heb. 10:14). "Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded" (Phil. 3:15). "Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world" (I John 4:17). STATE "Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances?" (Col. 2:20). "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven" (Matt. 5:16). "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Phil. 2:12). (Let it be observed, in reading this much-abused text, that the salvation spoken of here is not that of the soul, but salvation out of the snares which would hinder the Christian from doing the will of God.) "If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God" (Col. 3: 1). "Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth" (Col. 3:5). "Walk as children of light" (Eph. 5:8). "Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober" (I Thess. 5:6). "Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do" (I Thess. 5:11). "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth" (John 17:17). "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly" (I Thess. 5:23). "Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect" (Phil. 3:12). "Therefore, leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection" (Heb. 6: 1). "He that saith he abideth in him, ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked" (I John 2:6). The student will be able to add largely to this list of comparative passages showing that the Scripture makes a clear distinction between the standing and state of the believer. It will be seen that he is not under probation to see if he is worthy of an inconceivably exalted position, but, beginning with the confession of his utter unworthiness, receives the position wholly as the result of Christ's work. Positionally he is "perfected forever" (Heb. 10: 14), but looking within, at his state, he must say, "Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect" (Phil. 3:12). It may be said that all the afterwork of God in his behalf, the application of the Word to his walk and conscience (John 17:17; Eph. 5:26), the chastisements of the Father's hand (Heb. 12:10; 1 Cor. 11:32), the ministry of the Spirit (Eph. 4:11-12), all the difficulties and trials of the wilderness way (I Pet. 4:12-14), and the final transformation when He shall appear (I John 3:2), all are intended simply to bring the believer's character into perfect conformity to the position which is his in the instant of his conversion. He grows in grace, indeed, but not into grace. A prince, while he is a little child, is presumably as willful and as ignorant as other little children. Sometimes he may be very obedient and teachable and affectionate, and then he is happy and approved; at other times he may be unruly, self-willed, and disobedient, and then he is unhappy and perhaps is chastised. But he is just as much a prince on the one day as on the other. It may be hoped that, as time goes on, he will learn to bring himself into willing and affectionate subjection to every right way, and then he will be more princely, but not more really a prince. He was born a prince. In the case of every true son of the King of kings, and Lord of lords, this growth into kingliness is assured. In the end, standing and state, character and position, will be equal. But the position is not the reward of the perfected character-the character is developed from the position." BELIEVERS AND PROFESSORS http://www.biblebelievers.com/scofield/scofield_rightly10.html *"Ever since God has had a people separated to Himself they have been sorely troubled by the presence among them of those who professed to be, but were not, of them. And this will continue until "the Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall Sober out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do inquity... Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father" (Matt. 13:14-43). Scripture plainly tells us of this mingling of tares and wheat-of mere professors among true believers. Yet misguided students have frequently applied to the children of God the warnings and exhortations meant only for the self-deceived or hypocritical. The fact of such admixture is abundantly recognized in the Scriptures. (See Gen. 4:3-5; Exod. 12:38; Num. 11:4-6; Neh. 7:63-65; Neh. 13:1-3; Matt. 13:24-30, 37-43; 2 Cor. 11: 13-15; Gal. 2:4; 2 Pet. 2:1-2. It is impossible, in a brief Bible reading, to refer to all the passages which discriminate true believers from the mass of mere formalists, hypocrites, or deceived legalists, who are working for their own salvation instead of working out a salvation already received as a free gift. (See Phil. 2:12-13 with Eph. 2:8-9.) The following comparison of verses will sufficiently indicate the lines of demarcation. BELIEVERS ARE SAVED; MERE PROFESSORS ARE LOST TRUE BELIEVERS "And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Luke 7:50). "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers" (Acts 2:42). "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand" (John 10:27-29). "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day" (John 6:37,39). "And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut" (Matt. 25:10). "Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ, unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference" (Rom. 3:22). "Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints." (Rev 19:7-8). I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine" (John 10: 14). "Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his" (2 Tim. 2:19). "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life" (John 6:47). "Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world" (John 17:24). "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you, will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ" (Phil. 1:6). "But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition, but of them that believe to the saving of the soul" (Heb. 10:39). PRETENDERS "Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, be continued with Philip. But Peter said unto him ... Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God" (Acts 8:13,21). "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they bad been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us" (John 2:19). "But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him" (John 6:64-66). "Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not" (Matt. 25:11-12). "Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers! how can ye escape the damnation of hell?" (Matt. 23:28,33). "And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: and he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness" (Matt. 22:11-13). "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity" (Matt. 7:22-23). "What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?" (James 2:14). "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance" (Heb. 6:4-6). "Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him" (Heb. 10:38). BELIEVERS ARE REWARDED; PRETENDERS ARE CONDEMNED Compare: Matthew 25:19-23 with Matthew 25:24-30; Luke 12:42-44 with Luke 12:45-47; Colossians 3:24 with Matthew 7:22-23. Some texts are not free from difficulty, but with prayer and careful study light will surely come when keeping in mind the important rule: Never use a doubtful or obscure passage to contradict a clear and positive one. Do not use an "if' to contradict a "verily": Hebrews 6:6 to contradict John 5:24. The cases of Judas Iscariot and of Peter should present no difficulty. Judas was never a believer; (see John 6:68-71). Peter never ceased to be one (Luke 22:31-32). It should be ever remembered that these principles are to guide us only in rightly dividing the Word of God, but are never to be applied to living persons. The judgment of professors is not committed to us, but is reserved to the Son of Man (Matt. 13:28-29; 1 Cor. 4:5)." Below are sites that will help with good solid teaching.......... http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/BTP/Dr_Harry_Ironside/eternal_security.htm http://articles.ochristian.com/article10309.shtml http://www.biblebb.com/files/spurgeon/2120.htm Resting in Him, Judith