Mike W (19
Nov 2012)
"respond Barry
Armundsend"
Hi Barry
Thanks for the question. I will try to explain to you why I
believe that a person during this time period cannot lose
his/hers salvation. I will address some of the verses you
presented.
First one would be 1 Corinthians 15:2
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I
preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
God's Word transaltion says this
2 In addition, you are saved by this Good News if you hold on to
the doctrine I taught you, unless you believed it without
thinking it over.
If a person believes the Gospel then what happens?
Ephesians 1:13
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of
truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye
believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
So after a person believes he is SEALED with the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is attached to the person and will not leave
him. This is the only dispensation (the dispensation of grace)
where we are actually sealed. Must we produce fruits during this
time?
Romans 4:5
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that
justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Ok now back to 1 Corinthians 15. There were people in Corinth
who "said" they were believers but yet they did not believe in a
resurrection of the dead. Paul is simply telling them that you
have to believe in the Gospel to be saved. What is the Gospel?
Paul goes on to tell them.
1 Corinthians 15:3-4
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also
received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the
scriptures;4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the
third day according to the scriptures:
Well the resurrection is part of the Gospel of Grace we are to
believe to be saved. Evidently some in the church did not
believe the entire Gospel so in essence they were never sealed
with the Holy Spirit to begin with. They may have believed "in
God" but they obviously had a problem believing in the entire
Gospel. Paul is saying if you did not believe the entire Gospel,
The death, burial, and resurrection fo Jesus then you believed
in vain. It is no good to you. For had they believed the entire
Gospel they would have been sealed. If you would know them by
their fruits then surely Paul would have known who believed and
who did not. Remember Paul is talking to "babes in Christ" and
not mature Christians. He goes on to tell them in this chapter
that the believers will be caught up in the twingling of an eye.
He is telling them their sinful,mortal bodies will be changed.
But if you do not believe in the resurrection you will not be a
part of it. Nothing to do with the believer losing his
salvation. Verse 14 tells them exactly what I believe.A person
has to believe in the resurrection or that person is never
sealed nor saved.
! Corinthians 15:14
14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and
your faith is also vain.
Now let me answer 1 Timothy 1:19-20
19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put
away concerning faith have made shipwreck:20 Of whom is
Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that
they may learn not to blaspheme.
This passage has NOTHING to do with a person losing his
salvation. He is talking specifically about Hymenaeus and
Alexander. He delivered them to satan. What does this mean? We
can look in 1 Corinthians 5 and see where Paul uses this same
terminolgy.
1 Corinthians 5:5
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the
flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord
Jesus.
Look at God's Word translation
5 hand such a person over to Satan to destroy his corrupt nature
so that his spiritual nature may be saved on the day of the
Lord.
When Paul is delivering a person to satan he is removing them
from the fellowship of the church. They are still saved. The
verses above only prove a person who truly believes the Gospel
and I mean trust ONLY in the gospel is saved. If Paul could
judge their salvation by their fruits he could have just picked
out the Corinthians who bore no fruit and again explained to
them the Gospel, the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus.
Now the verses you quoted from the Old Testament were true but
that was for a "different" time period. They were never sealed
witht the Holy Spirit in that time period.
As for Hebrews and 1 and 2 Peter, those books are written to the
tribulation saints. They too will not be sealed and if they do
not prove their faith when "tested" or "tempted" (I honestly do
not understand the difference) then they may be in real danger.
If they are tempted or tested during this period it will more or
less be to take the mark of the beast. If a person does that
during this time period he will NOT be saved. Even if he had
believed in the death burial and resurrection of Jesus. During
the tribulation it does not matter who you are, if you take the
mark of the beast it is over for you.
When God completed the Bible he also put in the books for the
people living after the rapture of the church. These books are
very clear when you realize who they are talking to. Starting
with the book of Hebrews and going through Revelation you will
find those books very interesting as long as you apply them to
who they were written to. Romans through Philemon are written
for us today. God put the plan for the Jews and the Kingdom on
hold whenever the nation of Israel rejected Jesus as their
Messiah. He has blinded them. After the rapture the book of
Hebrews is the book that starts giving the instructions for
living. We can learn a lot from the entire Bible but we need to
be careful about which time period the Bible is referring to or
a person can get very confused and end up teaching a "perverted"
Gospel which Paul says that person is cursed.
I hope this clears up what I believe.
thanks
Mike W