Hi Donna, John and Doves,

I can understand where you are coming from. Remember that Natan and Caroline are Jewish. One must look at these prophecies and visions from a uniquely Jewish perspective. The Jewish people are blinded in part - for our sake. They have not received the Holy Spirit. Therefore, human logic is used. Particularly in the case of Natan.  Natan said, "Messiah cannot be someone who is dead". Having just visited heaven, Natan was absolutely certain about that. Messiah CANNOT be someone who is dead. As Bible believing Christians, gifted with the Holy Spirit, we know that our LORD Jesus rose from the dead. He conquered death. He ascended into heaven, physical body and all. Being ignorant of this, Natan's only logic was that Messiah had to be on earth because He is alive.  This confirms the Bible account that our LORD Jesus is alive. Have conquered death. This is an astounding confirmation of what scripture tells us.

Baptism is an act of repentance. John the Baptist didn't feel he was worthy to baptise Jesus but our LORD Jesus insisted. This is when the dove descended on LORD Jesus' and Almighty God declared that Jesus is His son, in whom He is well pleased. I believe this is what Natan was referring to - this act of repentance. Again - I am NOT suggesting that Jesus was a sinner before being baptised.  However, it was His baptism that was the start of His ministry.

As for the hell stuff that Natan spoke of, I don't claim to know anything more than you know. The parable of the rich man etc. What I do know is that our destinies are different. Christians differ from the Jewish people in terms of our spiritual and physical futures. Christians know we are saved through the redeeming blood of Christ. There is no judgement for sin as our sins have been forgiven.  We will always be with the LORD. We will have physical bodies that are immortal.  Romans 11:26 tells us that ALL Israel will be redeemed. The Deliverer will come from Zion and will banish ungodliness from Jacob. I am not an expert sage on the Torah (I wish I was) but I know enough that there are deep mysteries that connect Almighty God to His Chosen people. The people who reside in Almighty God's Holy Land.

Blessings to all.