Hello Dear Doves,

I'd like a chance to respond to Joe's post. 

I was troubled by the verbiage you used in your post. Perhaps, I misinterpret your intent. I ask though, what special or extra gift do martyrs receive? 

Phil 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

After the perfect absolute gift of YESHUA, what else is there? The crown of martyrdom is rooted in pagan philosophy. 

You seem to hint that those who wish to escape the coming troubles, the wicked inhabitants of earth are promised, are only wanting to escape because they are poor in spirit or not thinking logically. Your words: At what state is our spiritual mind if we prefer to trade temporary comfort for an eternal reward? 

I emphatically disagree. I have already received my eternal reward in Christ Messiah. 

It would seem to me that history is a fine teacher in these matters. When looking at WWI-the carnage, the loss of life, devastation the trenches, hunger, death, anguish...I don't have to imagine, I can see the pictures. Or WWII the evil things men under demonic influence are capable of is quite breath-taking and horrifying-incomprehensible. An estimate of 3% of the worlds population perished in this combat. (60 million people)

Yet scripture tells us this all pails in comparison to the coming days or wrath. According to Rev 6. The pale horseman (4th) will have power to vanquish 1/4 of the earth's inhabitants, that's roughly 2 billion people!

 Escaping all these things, has everything to do with working out my salvation with fear and trembling. If we are called to walk through the tribulation what suffering will I see others go through, what answers will I give family, my small children, friends etc. Even the very elect could not survive it except that those days are shortened for their sake. If I'm honest I think what awaits us ALL who walk through the fires of earth's last epoch...

You might say That's when faith comes into play, or that's when God will use you to glorify His name...yes yes true. Yet, I am no fool. I see my weaknesses and my stupidity... A wise man counts/considers the cost. 

I have studied, listened, reasoned with other men on pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib, for the last 30 years, but I am not convinced. I lean toward pre-trib because it sounds most like the pattern that's been established. I'm here now though, and will remain here until otherwise...I have no other choice. All other options outside of Yeshua HaMashia have been considered and found wanting. Never the less I am but dust. Even my Savior wondered if His cup could be substituted. He chose the will of His Abba. So too do I choose the will of my Abba. I am honored to be living in such a time as this yet filled with trepidation. Any consideration otherwise is pure pride on my part.

To suggest I'm somehow poor in spirit because I want to be counted worthy to "escape all these things" seems unwise and dangerous, as they were in fact a command to believers to be obedient in the face of every trouble and tribulation.  

If martyrdom were better it would seem that Noah or Lot should have said to I Am:  Lord, why should you bestow a way of escape for me? Might I stay instead and die a martyr?  Death aside from Yeshua brings no glory to Abba, I dare say. Yes, I know YHWH can use a saint's death to bring glory but the act itself is not glorious. 

Jovial (10 May 2015) 
"The Crown of Martyrdom, Death or Rapture-Do You Care?"

The Early Church was being put to death a lot at the hands of the Government as various Ceasars took various positions on Christianity and whether to let them live.  The official charge when they were killed by the government tended to be ATHEISM - that is, they refused to ackowledge "the gods", since we believe in only one God.

Many preferred and hoped their end would be martyrdom, because they understood that God rewarded martyrs in the next life with "The Crown of Martyrdom", a reward much bigger than if you had lived out the rest of your life.  In fact Polycarp was criticized for not running from the Government as hard as he should have, as if perhaps he wanted to get caught.  Because just giving up and saying "take me" is a bit selfish since you are losing out on the chance to witness to people in the future.

One early writer had this to say,

"What more glorious and blessed lot can fall to man by the grace of God, than to confess God the Lord amidst tortures and in the face of death itself; to confess Christ the Son of God with lacerated body and with a spirit departing, yet free; and to become fellow-sufferers with Christ in the name of Christ?  Though we have not yet shed our blood, we are ready to do so. Pray for us, then, dear Cyprian" (Letter to Cyprian, circa 249-260 AD)

If someone said they'd rather die in a car wreck at the age of 40 than die a martyr at the same age, you'd consider them insane.  Why?  Because there is no great reward for dieing in a car wreck.  Why then would someone prefer to go in the rapture?  Is it not more logical to remain and die a martyr if there is a greater reward for that?  At what state is our spiritual mind if we prefer to trade temporary comfort for an eternal reward?

My preference is simply whatever God's calling is for me. But I make the point because most people have embraced the rapture theology simply because they WANT it to be true and don't want to go through the temporary discomfort that living during the tribulation would entail.  They'd RATHER be raptured than spend the next 3.5 years running from the beast and using a tree for a toilet.  How badly have we let our modern society warp our thinking to come to that conclusion?

Shalom,

Joe