GM (11 May 2014)
"Context of Pastor Bob and Daniel"

Context of Pastor Bob and Daniel


I certainly appreciate an in-depth exegesis of any biblical topic.  I should directly state up front that we disagree while appreciating the privilege of sharing views.  Frankly, I have restrained response on Dan 9 comments because I believe the time is so late as to make any contentious discussion of views a disservice to the gathering of the fullness of the Gentiles right now.  However, I have been moved to offer the following.


Here is what you must know:


LOVE GOD.  Trust Jesus as the Son of God and read the Word of God, the Bible. (Yes, that’s the book for me.  J )


Also, let no man come between you and the Word of God; the Holy Spirit teaching you in your context.


I know the Pastor knows this, but the former is for other readers and our context.


Now, a few thoughts on the Pastor’s points regarding Daniel and Chapter 9:


The Pastor starts his “Context” article with, “Any seminary trained pastor will tell you…”  Seminary training is largely responsible for the weakened, plastic body of Christ in the western world.  If you are in a church where you have never heard a discussion of end times, the virgin birth or the very real science that tends to support the flood and biblical creation, remember, your pastor is seminary trained.  I have had direct experience with the manipulation of churches and other “Christian” organizations from the inside by persons with seminary training who systematically weed out people of genuine (and not disruptive) faith.  This is not a comment on “Bob”, by any means.  Suffice to say, that training is great if it is also Good.  “Pulling rank” is a red flag, reminding us to use full discernment.  This is true in secular contexts, also. 


Using the following statement “Bob” suggests that it is an allegory (symbolism) to suggest that Jesus’ death on the cross did not literally fulfill the statements in Daniel.


“The reason that this has not occurred at the cross is the premise is based on an Allegorical approach to interpretation rather than a Literal and Historical approach to interpretation of the passage.” End quote


And lists six points, which are very important…


“1. " finish the transgression...."                      Till Israel's apostasy comes to an end.


2. " make an end of sins..."                            Till Israel becomes a righteous nation.


3. " make reconciliation for iniquity..."            Till Israel's sins are forgiven.


4. " bring in everlasting righteousness..."      Till Messiah's righteous kingdom is established.


5. " seal up the vision and prophecy..."         Till the prophecies concerning Israel are fulfilled.


6. " anoint the most Holy (Place)..."              Till the rebuilt Temple will be consecrated.” End quote



All of the points are Israel oriented and this is appropriate.  Israel is the timepiece of Bible history.


Here is the problem in a nutshell.  I believe my sins of the past and the future have been LITERALLY forgiven; by an atonement on the (literal) cross nearly 2000 years ago.  If you think this is semantics, consider that the New Testament and the Gospel is entirely a testimony of this fact and the availability of the Holy Spirit to every man.   Further, the Bible specifically states the church of Christ to be an in-grafted branch of Israel, the Hebrew nation.  So, these statements in Daniel can apply to the church and the work of the Holy Spirit.


The six points:

1.    Israel’s transgression of apostasy will end when Israel recognizes the church is accepted by God and provoked to jealously.  However, this is only partial until Jesus returns to complete the final three and a half years of the final week and reigns as King.

2.    We cannot be sure that sin will be “extinct” during the Millennial Kingdom, let alone before then.  There will be judges in the “MK”.  What for?  However, for those who accept Jesus, sin is ended.  See Romans.

3.    Referring back to number 2, sin is ended by reconciliation.  While we are still in our human bodies we have a sin nature, but have been freed by the atonement on the cross.

4.    Jesus literally gained an eternal victory on the cross.  The Holy Spirit dwells among us and is everlasting righteousness.

5.    Vision and prophecy are both reality and yet to be fulfilled from a human viewpoint.  How did the crucifixion coincide with a sealing of prophecy for the Hebrews?  Read Romans 11:25


I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in,


This verse makes it clear that Israel has experienced a partial hardening of the heart until the fullness of the gentiles, which many of us believe will result in what is called the rapture.  Further, Jesus said He spoke in parables specifically so that the people would not understand fully what He was saying at that time.  Prophecy and allegory.  Through parables and a hardening of the heart similar to Pharaoh’s before the exodus, Daniel and the New Testament in its entirety have been partially sealed to Israel.  I believe Daniel is being unsealed in our day.

     6.What is the most Holy thing on earth right now?  If you answered the Holy Spirit you are correct.  Now, where does it dwell?  In Us!  The Holy Spirit dwells in the physical and spiritual bodies of people.  This is different than before the cross, when, at times, the presence of God did dwell in the tabernacle or temple.  Will it again?  I don’t know.  I do know that none of the elements of sacrifice have a use in the future.  The ultimate and only eternal sacrifice on earth is the one Jesus made on the cross.  Nothing can supersede it. 

Finally on point 6,. I question the purpose of Dan 9.  If it is only to be revealed in the MK then why offer it to Daniel at all?   What good is it?  God will have already proven His supremacy and dominion.  He will have completed judgment and vanquished evil.  After all of that Jesus will still need to open Daniel 9 and say, “I told you so!”  Not at all.  The unsealing must come before the MK to have use for Israel.  When they become jealous of the redeemed church they will search scripture directly instead of reading opinions of others.  God, will provide insight. 


The “builders” are referenced in scripture.  Check it out.  God will not rely on secret societies to build future dwellings.


Regarding these points Bob states:

5. The vision and the prophecies are unfulfilled.  Any rabbi will confirm this point.

6.   The Holy Place has not been rebuilt, and If it has not been rebuilt it cannot be consecrated.” End quote


Any Hebrew please understand no offense is intended…

These are entirely Old Testament perspectives.  Is Bob a Rabbi himself?  Hopefully not, as Jesus called the Rabbi’s at the Temple a “brood of vipers (serpents) who were doing the work of their father the Devil.”   Further, He said,  “they call themselves Jews, but are not.”  I am not commenting on every Rabbi, but Jesus clearly indicated something was wrong in Rabbinic teaching.

Jesus himself directly allegorized when He compared His body to the Temple building.  Likewise, all believers are stated to be in the body of Christ.  This is a Holy place and why we are not to physically sin.  Doing so defiles “the body of Christ” in which the Holy Spirit dwells.  If you are well read in the Bible, consider if you would write point 6 above.  Again, this is not an attack of Pastor Bob, but a measure of point 6.

After reciting many of the scriptures relating to Dan 9 we read this statement…


Anyone understanding that the Jews were dispersed to the four regions of the planet, can clearly see that none of the six goals of Daniel 9:24 remain unfulfilled.  There is no known historical evidence to prove to the contrary. “end quote


None are unfulfilled?  I presume that statement is a typo; otherwise everything before is contradicted.


Bob continues by reasserting that Israel is the primary focus of scripture.  Then he makes some, frankly, dismissive comments on alternate points of view.  Finally, he offers a “straw dog” argument that he has written before that an alternate reading of Daniel 9 comes from “replacement theology” which is an already discredited view.  Linking the two together is supposed to harm by association. 


I will not dismiss Pastor Bob.  He is well taught and practiced in supporting his point of view.  A view which is exclusively Old Testament regarding Daniel, and by extension every other Old Testament writing.  I wonder if he can find Jesus in the Old Testament?  If he cannot, he does not know Jesus is Messiah.  If he can, how can he separate the work on the cross from Israel?


Please go directly to the Word of God.  Ask Him to reveal what He wants you to see.  He will speak to you.