M.A.P. ,

 

2 Tim 2:7-15

7 Reflect on what I am saying, for the Lord will give you insight into all this.

 

8 Remember Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, descended from David. This is my gospel, 9 for which I am suffering even to the point of being chained like a criminal. But God's word is not chained. 10 Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory.

 

11 Here is a trustworthy saying:

 

If we died with him,

we will also live with him;

12 if we endure,

we will also reign with him.

If we disown him,

he will also disown us;

13 if we are faithless,

he will remain faithful,

for he cannot disown himself.

 

14 Keep reminding them of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen. 15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.

(from New International Version)

 

 

As a long time lurker on Five Doves, I feel I have learned much from many people and have contributed very little.  After reading your message, I realize that you sound like a seasoned veteran but are a relative newbie.  About 38 years ago I was at a spiritual crossroad where I could either continue as a church-going Christian or develop a personal relationship with God.  I had spent time in prayer and talking to other Christians about life but I hadn’t personally studied the bible.  I found myself at a point where I needed to take responsibility for my choices or the world would make them for me.  I chose to begin a journey of learning that has not stopped since.

 

Where do I start?  OK, I needed to have a plan.  I began in prayer, and the answer is, “Start at the beginning.”  Keep praying and reading the bible.  Don’t skip the boring parts.  When I had learned about all of those people in the bible, I  realized that they are not mythical  stories but they are our real flesh and blood ancestors.  They were real people with all of the same short comings that I have.  Now when I have a question like some you are asking, I can go back and say how did Abraham handle that, or Job, or King David, Paul, Peter, John, Jesus, or many others.

 

I don’t want to make light of your problem.  No matter where you are in your Christian walk, God still loves and cares for you.  Sometimes He is right there with an answer.  Other times require waiting or taking matters into our own hands.  Now may  be a good time to read while you wait for God’s answer.

 

I hope this is helpful.

 

Rich Pierson

 

PS

 

Deut 10:12-16

 

12 And now, O Israel, what does the LORD your God ask of you but to fear the LORD your God, to walk in all his ways, to love him, to serve the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, 13 and to observe the LORD's commands and decrees that I am giving you today for your own good?

 

14 To the LORD your God belong the heavens, even the highest heavens, the earth and everything in it. 15 Yet the LORD set his affection on your forefathers and loved them, and he chose you, their descendants, above all the nations, as it is today. 16 Circumcise your hearts, therefore, and do not be stiff-necked any longer.

(from New International Version)

 

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

HI, JOHN & ALL DOVES.

I WOULD LIKE TO GET SOME RESPONSES REGARDING SOMETHING THAT HAS REALLY

BOTHERED ME!  IN FACT, IT JUST PLAIN TOOK THE WIND OUTTA MY SAILS WHEN I

FIRST BEGAN TO QUESTION WHAT I THOUGHT GOD HAD TOLD ME ABOUT THIS!

WHEN I CAME BACK TO CHRIST AS AN ADULT ABOUT 9 YRS. AGO I WAS CONVINCED THAT

THERE WAS GOING TO BE AN ALL-OUT HOLY GHOST INSPIRED, ON-FIRE FOR GOD INVASION

OF HEAVEN UPON THE PRE-RAPTURE CHURCH IN MY LIFETIME...A GREAT, GREAT HARVEST

OF SOULS COMING!  I WAS SOOOOOOOO ON FIRE FOR GOD, SO FULL OF FAITH AND

EXPECTATION!  I BELIEVED THIS MOSTLY BECAUSE OF JOEL 2: HOW THE YOUNG PEOPLE

WOULD SEE VISIONS, THE OLD WOULD DREAM DREAMS, BEFORE THAT GREAT & TERRIBLE

DAY OF THE LORD, ETC.

LATER I BEGAN TO SEE ANOTHER SIDE TO THIS ISSUE.  THERE ARE ALSO SCRIPTURES

THAT TALK OF DECEPTION, APOSTATE CHURCHES, AND THE GROSS DARKNESS THAT IS TO

BEFALL THE EARTH.  WELL, THIS IS ALL I SEE HAPPENING NOW!  I'VE SUSPECTED THAT

I HAVE BEEN WRONG ABOUT ANY GREAT REVIVAL THIS SIDE OF THE RAPTURE!!!

BUT THEN, AS I HAVE BEEN STUDYING THE BOOK OF REVELATION & ASSOCIATED BOOKS,

I DO SEE A GREAT HARVEST HERE!  I AM NOW MORE INCLINED TO BELIEVE A HARVEST

OF ANY MAGNITUDE IS MUCH MORE LIKELY TO OCCUR AFTER THE RAPTURE, AND IT WILL

BE THE NEWLY CONVERTED JEWS THAT BRING IT TO FRUITION!  YOU KNOW...THE TWO

WITNESSES ALONG WITH THE 144,000 AND OTHER TRIBULATION CONVERTS.  THIS WILL

BE THE HARVEST OF ALL HARVESTS FOR GOD, BECAUSE THIS TIME THE FRUITS OF THE

HARVEST WILL BE GIVING UP THEIR VERY LIVES FOR THEIR CHOICE.  WHEN YOU CONVERT

DURING THE TRIBULATION, THERE'S NO HALFWAY, HALF-BAKED CONVERSIONS!  EVERYONE

WILL KNOW THEIR LIVES ARE AT STAKE.  I BELIEVE THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS,

BUT THIS CHANGE OF BELIEF I UNDERWENT OVER THE PAST 9 YEARS HAS REALLY DEFLATED

PERHAPS MILLIONS WILL BE SAVED DURING THIS TIME!

SO, IS IT OVER FOR THE CHURCH?  ARE OUR GLORY DAYS BEHIND US?  IS IT ALL OVER

EXCEPT FOR THE RAPTURE?  AND, OF COURSE, OUR OWN PERSONAL EFFORTS OF

EVANGELIZATION, UNTIL THEN?

WHAT DO THE DOVES THINK?  I DON'T WANT TO BE DECEIVED EITHER WAY!  THAT'S WHY

I WANT YOUR INPUT!  THANKS, EVERYONE!

M.A.P.
MY SPIRITUAL FERVOR!

THEN LATER, I BEGAN TO SEE ANOTHER SIDE TO THE ISSUE THAT SEVERELY DEFLATED ME