TO BARRY(RE:Barry Amundsen (24 March 2012)
"Book of Enoch, Jasher, 2 Esdras...")WHAT DOES JESUS HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THOSE WHO CONSIDER THEMSELVES WISE?(This article by Marc Gibson says it best, and my personal response follows.)
"Thou Hast Revealed Them Unto Babes"
By Marc GibsonIn one of the prayers He addressed to His Father, Jesus said, "I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight " (Matthew 11:25-26).
He then said to those who would hear Him, "All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and he to whom the Son wills to reveal Him “(v. 26).In Luke's recording of these words, He adds that Jesus turned privately to His disciples and said, "Blessed are the eyes which see the things you see" (Luke 10:23). God has revealed truth unto man. In this present time, the Father has revealed His Son, Jesus Christ, to those who will see and hear. In Christ is revealed all truth for man to know and please God. Jesus said that God gave this revelation unto "babes," and hid it from the "wise and prudent". When Jesus used these terms, He referred to the world's judgments as to who was wise and who was naive. The "wise and prudent" are those who, due to their worldly wisdom and self-righteousness, rank themselves highly. "Babes" are those who humble themselves before the altar of God's wisdom, leaving behind human assumptions and preconceived notions. Revealed truth is "hidden" from the wise and prudent because they refuse to acknowledge it. Truth is "revealed" to babes because they are of a mind to hear and heed God's word.
Paul, in speaking of the fact that some would deem the message of the cross (the gospel) as foolishness, wrote: "For it is written: 'I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.' Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe" (I Corinthians 1: 19-21).
Education can be very helpful, but filling the mind with large doses of worldly wisdom (whether religious or secular), can endanger the soul. The more enamored we become with worldly philosophy and wisdom, the more difficult it is for us to perceive spiritual truths. "But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" (2:14).
This is why Paul warned the Colossians to beware of being "plundered" by "Philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ"(Colossians 2:8). One commentator noted correctly "it is paradoxical but true that study can separate a person from the truth as well as bring a person to truth. It is the attitude of the learner that determines the result" (Robert E. Mounce, NIBC, Matthew, p. 107).
Again, Paul wrote, "For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty... " (1 Corinthians 1:26).
Worldly wisdom is a trap that the devil sets to lure those who will not fully submit their minds to God's revealed will. Christians should not be ashamed of lacking worldly learning and prestige. We are still fully equipped to stand up and contend for the faith and give a defense for the hope that is within us (Jude 3; 1 Peter 3:15). You may be a "babe" in worldly wisdom, but you can understand the revealed mind of God. ***
In Matt. 11:25. . .Jesus prayed and thanked God that He had not revealed theses things to the "wise and prudent"...but to "babes." Christ was actually making an affront to the leaders of this supposed "wise" generation who were rejecting Him. However, Christ gave an invitation in verses 28-30, saying, "Come all that labor and are heavy laden." They, in fact, were ignorant of the truth of God, yet Christ was offering to make them wise toward the truth if they would believe and accept Him as their Savior.##################Barry,
Forgive me, but I cannot stay silent on this one, and I will try and say this as nicely as possible.
I was very offended by what you wrote, and I pray there are others that may have felt the same way. Although the great majority on this site will probably applaud what a great post it was. This makes me very sad.
So, the bottom line of what you were conveying is this:People who believe that fallen angels mated with man, and go outside the Scriptures to try and prove it ARE THE WISE ONES.
And those who do not believe that concept are just the dumb general public that believes that The Holy Bible gives us we need to know. And, demons may keep us from finding these hidden gold nuggets!!! What poor simpletons we are!
Do you really believe everything written in the Book of Enoch?? Or are you so wise that you could discern those nuggets of truth from the great majority of lies? I am sorry, but if the book of Enoch has even one lie in it, it takes all its validity away!!! I hope you have been reading the studies I have been putting on, and my responses to other about the fallen angel thing.
WHERE IS THE PROOF??? WHERE IS THE SKELETAL EVIDENCE OF SUCH A THING??? WHY WOULD GOD ALLOW SUCH A THING? WHAT DOES IT HAVE TO DO WITH THE SALVATION OF MANKIND? JESUS TOLD US EVERY TRUE WE NEED TO KNOW, SO WHY DID HE, HIMSELF, NOT STRESS THE NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE FALLEN ANGELS MATING WITH MAN????
Until you can answer those kinds of questions, then I think I would rather separate myself from such so called wisdom. Count me in the group of smiling simpletons!!
Your post made it sound like you were better, smarter, wiser, and had more of The Holy Spirit, than anyone who disagrees with you. That was prideful, arrogant and DANGEROUS POSITION TO TAKE. WE MUST BECOME AS CHILDREN TO ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN!! MAKING SOMETHING SO COMPLICATED, AND HARD TO DISCERN, IS CERTAINLY NOT OF THE CHILD- LIKE SPIRIT THAT CHRIST LOVES SO DEARLY.
I heartily disagree with you, and actually think this whole fallen angel thing is a BIG PART OF THE STRONG DELUSION… and not because one does not believe it, but because one does!!! That whole view is distracting, complicated, and cannot be proven.
I pray, I am not the only one on this site that does not go for your conclusions on the matter.
With all due respect, please answer the above questions and then maybe I will believe your wisdom. Otherwise I am will stay a simple fool for the Lord!!JESUS, PLEASE COME SOON!!!
Patti C.###########
Barry Amundsen (24 March 2012)
"Book of Enoch, Jasher, 2 Esdras..."
Ezra was given a charge by God to write down what God dictates to him saying that this knowledge was for the last days when evil would become great and truth would be rare and confused due to widespread falsehood. But then God gave a very interesting command to Ezra regarding what he was to write. He said part of this I want you to publicize for everyone and the other part I want you to give in secret only to the wise. Notice the charge at the bottom which I emphasize with bold, underlined text.4Ezra 14:16 - For evils worse than those which you have now seen happen shall be done hereafter.17 - For the weaker the world becomes through old age, the more shall evils be multiplied among its inhabitants.18 - For truth shall go farther away, and falsehood shall come near. For the eagle which you saw in the vision is already hastening to come."19 - Then I answered and said, "Let me speak in thy presence, Lord.20 - For behold, I will go, as thou hast commanded me, and I will reprove the people who are now living; but who will warn those who will be born hereafter? For the world lies in darkness, and its inhabitants are without light.21 - For thy law has been burned, and so no one knows the things which have been done or will be done by thee.22 - If then I have found favor before thee, send the Holy Spirit into me, and I will write everything that has happened in the world from the beginning, the things which were written in thy law, that men may be able to find the path, and that those who wish to live in the last days may live."23 - He answered me and said, "Go and gather the people, and tell them not to seek you for forty days.24 - But prepare for yourself many writing tablets, and take with you Sarea, Dabria, Selemia, Ethanus, and Asiel -- these five, because they are trained to write rapidly;25 - and you shall come here, and I will light in your heart the lamp of understanding, which shall not be put out until what you are about to write is finished.26 - And when you have finished, some things you shall make public, and some you shall deliver in secret to the wise; tomorrow at this hour you shall begin to write."How would Ezra accomplish that last directive from God? How would he even know which people are which? Would he have to interview the people and categorize them according to their wisdom in order to know whom to give the part that God said is only for the wise and keep it from the unwise? "Uhh, you seem pretty wise, so okay, come here, I need to fill you in on the secret part..." While to the unwise, "Uhh, that's all for today, have a nice day, nothing more, thank you drive through..."Or is there a simpler way, one that causes the people themselves to sort themselves into the two categories of wise or unwise? I submit that God has chosen a simple way that lets each of us choose which we are, either wise or general public and we therefore will line up on either side of that line based upon how we choose to handle the writings that God has left for us. I believe that the way this works is that the wise will want to know God's truth above all else and will humble themselves under His leadership directly as they look into the different writings. God will then illuminate for them to rightly discern the importance of the truth written therein. While others who lack the illumination because of not seeking God's direct guidance but rely instead on their own understanding or the expertise of men, can look at these same writings and find no use for them and reject them as anything useful and hereby we sort ourselves out.I believe that Ezra's charge is accomplished therefore by having part of his writings become publicized for everyone and ultimately canonized (which became the Old Testament Book of Ezra, and therefore received by all as being from God) while the other part of his writing which God said to give only to the wise is not canonized but is found among the "Apocryphal" books instead where it is known as 2 Esdras (his name in Greek).These sorts of books (including the Book of Enoch) may not be interesting to the public or "non-wise" group except as targets of ridicule and derision and they will reject these writings and not understand why anyone would take these writings seriously. When the public or "un-wise" group measures these things by their intellect and the intellectual expertise of other similar trusted leaders and scholars they are satisfied with their conclusions that there is nothing worthy of further investigation or any reason to look for enlightenment or truth among such writings and therefore do not receive them. The end result is as if Ezra kept them from them in the first place yet more just or fair than that for they are without excuse since they decided it for themselves. It may even be that dark spirits will help to bring a negative conclusion to these people regarding these writings with ugly feelings when they attempt to read them for they may be approaching them with suspicion and doubt in the first place rather than humbly asking God for His guidance. But the wise have a different perspective for God's Spirit has illuminated their understanding to be able to receive the truths without hanging up on the objections of the others.Simply, there is a deception coming on this world so great that if it were possible it would deceive the very elect. This deception is so hard to accept that the Bible says many will not believe it even though they were told of it. It involves interbreeding between humans and non humans, mingling the seed etc. as iron mixed with miry clay. These things are not discussed at length in the canonized scriptures but are discussed in other places. The lines of Seth with ungodly human wives view is a "safe" way for many who do not want to accept the idea that these horrors could really be real. When the rapture happens nothing will be the same again and the hidden things will become manifest. The warnings are for those who can receive them and prepare themselves to escape and stand before the Son of Man. Truth must be sought for as for hid treasure.