Lydia F (3 March 2012)
"re: Mike W to Josh List"


 
Mike, I was intrigued by your choice of scripture to back up your stance - 1 Corinthians 5:5 "HAND THIS MAN OVER TO SATAN FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF THE FLESH SO THAT HIS SPIRIT MAY BE SAVED ON THE DAY OF THE LORD", so I "Greeked" it by looking it up in Strong's, my point of emphasis being the words, "SO THAT" [G2443). 
 
To deliver [G3860] (5629) such an one [G5108] unto Satan [G4567] for [G1519] the destruction [G3639] of the flesh [G4561], that [G2443] the spirit [G4151] may be saved [G4982] (5686) in [G1722] the day [G2250] of the Lord [G2962] Jesus [G2424].
  
Lexicon Results
Strong's G2443 - hina    ἵνα    Transliteration hina     Pronunciation hē'-nä (Key)
Root Word (Etymology) Probably from the same as the former part of ἑαυτοῦ (G1438) 
  (through the demonstrative idea, cf ὁ (G3588)
1) that, in order that, so that

Paul is instructing the believers at Corinth to do a specific thing - hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh - IN ORDER THAT his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord. It seems that you are reading this differently than I am, for this says to me that they are told to do one thing SO THAT another thing may occur - that his spirit may be saved. I can't understand why Paul would tell them to do this, and word it the way he did, if another outcome were not possible - that his spirit NOT be saved. It seems to me that your scriptural example supports Josh's point of view rather than yours. But you stated that "he is still saved!!!" I don't follow your reasoning.

You also seemed to take exception to Josh writing:  "Make your election sure."  You wrote: "Based on that one statement and you telling me that you do not believe in once saved always saved then I see that as a problem." The phrase Josh used is taken straight from 2 Peter 1:10-11! "Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal the kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."

We are also told in Philippians 2:12 to "continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling".  Sounds like there is some kind of effort involved here. What exactly are we to be in fear of? Maybe God's discipline when we disobey (see Hebrews 12:5-8), or His judgment (Hebrews 10:27)? 

I'm really not here to argue the relative merits of OSAS, but to point out that there are valid scriptural arguments to be made for the opposing view (and you made one, unwittingly). As for myself, I do indeed want to work out my salvation with fear and trembling, and to make my calling and election sure.  I never, ever, want to take for granted the sacrifice that Christ made for me, by choosing to live selfishly, just assuming that no matter what I do, I'll make it to heaven. That may be true, but I personally want to "receive a rich welcome" and hear "Well done, good and faithful servant", rather than making it in by the skin of my teeth, as it were. And by the way, I have total peace in the Lord, and have learned to walk with Him, trust Him, and serve Him in faith and surrender. I don't ever want to disappoint Him, because I love Him more than anything!

HOWEVER, I think this whole thread is off-topic. What was being discussed is who may or may not go in the Rapture, not who may or may not make it to heaven. Everyone in history has died, with only TWO exceptions. Because being raptured without tasting death has been an exceedingly rare event, I don't think it is unreasonable to believe that it MAY be an experience that is reserved for fewer believers that some think.

That's my two cents' worth.

Lydia F