Arlene,

            I went to the web site that you recommended. It would appear that Mr. Ernst Martin is decidedly against one of the applications that MathMan had delineated. Mr. Martin doesn’t seem to have much problem with the other applications as such, but he is opposed to the thought that one could look at the seven churches also from the perspective of prophetically picturing the church age from Pentecost until the blessed hope. Of course, like anyone else, Mr. Martin is entitled to his opinion, it’s a free country. The only thing that left me wondering, was the way that he approached it. Instead of mainly trying to show from the scriptures, why he believes that it is wrong to also consider that application, Mr. Martin scares people off, by identifying that application with those whom people may not want to be associated with. Since it would appear that since Mr. Martin believes that application to be a false doctrine, he presents it as coming originally from a Catholic monk during the Dark Ages. That would seem to “scare off” most Baptists, Pentecostals, and Evangelicals, if they are only beginning to look into this, since many of them might flee, rather than to be associated with Catholic monk doctrine. Then he says, “by the time of the Protestant Reformation, these same ideas had crept into the theology of some of the Reformed churches”. Now by using the word, “crept”, it immediately identifies that application with the following two lines of scripture:

Jude 4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

II Timothy 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

Then for the icing on the cake, Mr. Martin identifies that application with Ellen G. White, which would frighten everyone outside of the SDA church, to flee from any identification with her. I think that the scare tactic approach, rather than disputing from the scriptures, may work with someone only beginning to study these things, since they may easily be scared off, but is that the best approach? At least, I don’t think so. I would have preferred a more scriptural rebuke by Mr. Martin, or at least for him to have done a far more exhaustive, historical study on the use of that application, going back and even considering the writings of the men commonly called the “church fathers”, the men who wrote during the first few centuries of the church age. Also, over the last few hundred years, there have been many men, considered great writers by others, from different kinds of church backgrounds, who have considered that application, and who have definitely done the due diligence of the thorough homework, and were not ignorantly swept off their feet into using the writings of say, Ellen G. White. On the contrary, many were very careful to study things out for themselves, and I would include MathMan and Mr. Kelly in with them who studied.

                        Thank you for helping me out with this, and for the gentle caution, I do appreciate that,

Gino