Hi RJ2 on the 144,000.....You really hit one nail on the head when describing Copley's article...."intellectual rationalism".  I, however, found it challenging...and it raised questions for me.  For some reason, I really enjoy intellectuals.  I agree that it doesn't have the emotional connection that most later day writers have.  But maybe it didn't seem as close or real to him because he couldn't personalize it, as if it could happen a year from now (as it could in our day).  I still have to dig into the words a bit more and pray for God to flick that "Aha!!" switch in me that I'm not having at present.  That's why I asked your opinion.  I value it!

I'd love to hear Mike Colunga's opinion as well.  I love his take on some things.  And I'm an absolute, no question about it, 1611 Authorized King James Bible person.  There are words that are different in your bible, such as "in" vs. "o! n" that make a world of difference in the interpretation....at least to me.  The title "bond servant" is not in my bible.  My "east" is your "rising sun", etc.  If my words are right, then yours are not.  I do not trust Wescott and Hort manuscript translations (they originate in Egypt).

I am of the opinion, at this time, that both the 144,000 are the SAME group.....before and after.  They are from the "tribes of Israel"....and they are sealed by God.  We are only working with three groups in the bible.....Jews, Gentiles, and Christians.  Once the Jews and/or Gentiles become Christians, we only have the saved (Jews and Gentiles) and unsaved (Jews and Gentiles).  The only others in the bible are the "dead" or the Nephilim, or rephaim, etc.  Therefore, the 144,000 in both places are the same people....prior to sealing and after their purpose is completed....tribes of Israel.

Maybe some of the other Doves can jump in on! this one!  Until we can all reason it out according to God's truth, none of us can consider ourselves right or wrong.  I've had my fill of being tutored in a church by someone who knew less than I did.  And I totally dislike when anyone takes translations from several bibles and tries to correct my KJV....which, to me, is already perfect.  Sure, God uses some different words (like "giants" in Gen.6)....but that was the word that put me on my search which explained Jude 1:6 to me.  And, as I truly think, there are so many ways we think alike....mainly our love for our Saviour, Jesus Christ.

With warm thoughts....

YsiC,

Arlene