Reply to Gary B (12 March 2023) armies surrounding Jerusalem

"WHEN YOU SHALL SEE JERUSALEM surrounded WITH ARMIES, (…)THEN KNOW that its DESOLATION is near." v.20

"For these are THE DAYS OF VENGEANCE , that ALL THINGS WHICH ARE WRITTEN may be fulfilled." v.22

"For there shall be GREAT DISTRESS (……) in THE LAND (.…..) , and (…..) WRATH UPON THIS PEOPLE (……)." v.23b.

Now when these things (…..) begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, (…..) because your redemption (…..) draws near. v.28

So you also, when you see these things (…..) happening, know that the kingdom of God is near. v.32

Your insertion of ‘extra words’ (about Gog and Magog) into Jesus’ narrative as He answered His disciples’ questions—regarding the future destruction and desolation of the Temple in AD 70, is rather misleading!

The context of Jesus’ dissertation is all about the future of the Temple, in Luke 21:5–7 > as well as in Matt. 24:1–3 >. To understand this dissertation in its entirety, both passages need to be considered. Jesus’ primary topic is to tell His disciples about the coming destruction of the Temple.

Then, as some spoke of the temple, how it was adorned with beautiful stones and donations, He said ‘These things which you see—the days will come in which not one stone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown down.’

And what sign will there be when these things are about to take place?’ (Luke 21:5–7)

Matthew has a slightly different ‘take’ on what was said, but importantly, he adds more detail to Jesus’ dissertation, by saying that this discussion took place on the Mt. of Olives, after Jesus had left the Temple, and Matthew actually broadens the scope of the questions the disciples asked!

Later on the same day (while He and His disciples were sitting on the Mt. of Olives, looking across the Kidron Valley, gazing at the Temple), the disciples PRIVATELY questioned Him about the events that would occur in the future. Matthew reports:

Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said to them, ‘Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.’

Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying,

Jesus immediate answer is intended to reassure them that these things, and the sign of His coming, and the end of the age would be widely-spaced events… when he said:

Take heed that no one deceives you… re false Christs…wars and rumours of wars…

You should not be troubled about all that must come to pass, because the end is not yet! (Matt. 24:4)

But when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified; for these things must come to pass first, but the end will not come immediately. (Luke 21:9)

Jesus then lists the historic events that would take place during the Gospel age, (some of which would affect their testimony), i.e., persecution and betrayal in Luke 21:12, 16–19; false Christs v.8; wars and commotions v.9–10; earthquakes, famines, pestilences, fearful sights, great signs in heaven v.11. etc.

And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. Matt. 24:14

Luke 21:20–24 (part of which you have quoted above), and Matt. 24:15–22 both commence new sections about what will happen to the temple (i.e., these things they were looking at).

In this new section, Jesus reverts to his disciples’ original comments about the temple’s beauty, and His own reply about its destruction. Here he informs them about the desolation that would encompass JERUSALEM and its inhabitants. Jesus says the sign preceding these things would be:

But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. (Luke 21:20–22) [1]

And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. (Luke 21:24)

The disciples would see this invasion of armies surrounding Jerusalem during their lifetime. (Luke 21:32) However, Matthew uses the words abomination of desolation for the same invasion.

Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (whoever reads, let him understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains… (Matt. 24:15 >)

These two different reports refer to the same siege of Jerusalem, carried out by Vespasian and his son Titus, in AD 69–70.

Please refer to my post – Reply to Jeremiah on Five Doves (12^th March) – regarding the Repercussions arising from Daniel’s 70^th week during the Alternative week that Jesus called the ‘Days of Vengeance.’

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So Gary, it appears to me that you have taken the scriptures referring to the desolation of the Temple and Jerusalem in AD 70 from Luke 21:20–31, (which resulted in the Jews being scattered throughout the World), and you have juxtaposed Ezekiel’s Gog and Magog invasion of Israel into that passage.

According to Revelation 20:7–9 (below), Gog and Magog’s ‘attempted invasion’ does not take place until after the thousand years Millennial Reign has been fulfilled!

Thus, Revelation infers, and Ezekiel clearly states (several times) that Gog and Magog invade and surround outlying areas of Jerusalem when Jerusalem is at peace, and the beloved City has no defensive walls. Ezekiel says Gog comes to take booty and treasure!

Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. (Revelation 20:7–9)

N.B. Satan is put in the bottomless pit after Armageddon (Rev. 20:1–3), and he has to be released from his prison (Rev. 20:7) before Gog can arise:

After many days you will be visited. In the latter years you will come into the land of those brought back from the sword and gathered from many people on the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate; they were brought out of the nations, and now all of them dwell safely. You will ascend, coming like a storm, covering the land like a cloud, you and all your troops and many peoples with you.

Thus says the Lord GOD: ‘On that day it shall come to pass that thoughts will arise in your mind, and you will make an evil plan: You will say, “I will go up against a land of unwalled villages; I will go to a peaceful people, who dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates—to take plunder and to take booty, to stretch out your hand against the waste places that are again inhabited, and against a people gathered from the nations, who have acquired livestock and goods, who dwell in the midst of the land.” Shebah, Dedan, the merchants of Tarshish, and all their young lions will say to you, “Have you come to take plunder? Have you gathered your army to take booty, to carry away silver and gold, to take away livestock and goods, to take great plunder?” (Ezekiel 38:8–13)

It appears to me that Ezekiel chapters 38 and 39 are correctly placed after chapters 36 and 37, both of which tell of Israel’s physical restoration to the land (1948 >). Their spiritual life is restored via the raising of the dry bones (which is yet to occur at the 2^nd Coming of Jesus, cf. Isaiah 59:15b–21), and that will be followed by the blessings pronounced in Ezekiel 37:24–28, where it states that God will set His sanctuary in their midst; thus implying it will exist in Jerusalem, the beloved City, in Israel during the Millennium, together with the Camp of the Saints. (See Rev. 20:9 above)

Consequently, it will be because of the peaceful reign of their Redeemer-Messiah—during the millennial period—that Israel is able to accumulate such massive wealth that the outlying nations become jealous and try to invade Jerusalem to take great plunder, silver and gold, and booty, (cf. Ezekiel 38:8–13 above). Other passages of scripture describe the wealth of Jerusalem during this millennial age: Revelation 21:23–27, Isaiah 60:1–22, and Zechariah 14:5b–19; these prophecies are yet to be fulfilled!

Revelation 16:12 –16, and 19:11–20:3 further indicates that it is the participants in the Armageddon War who are destroyed at the 2^nd Coming of Jesus Christ, when the Beast and the False Prophet, who inspired it, are cast into the lake of fire burning with brimstone, and Satan is confined to the bottomless pit for a thousand years…

Clearly Gog’s invasion comes after that special one thousand years of peace and prosperity… and in any case, it would appear that—in spite of all Gog’s troops and the various people groups that are with him—Gog will not get to destroy Jerusalem! They might surround it, but they don’t get into it! Ezekiel 39:1–8 says that they fall on the mountains of Israel… (i.e., Mt. Hermon to the north, the Golan heights to the north-east, and Eliat in the Negev, 200 ks south of the Dead Sea, on the border of Egypt), and on the open field (fertile areas in the Jezreel Valley aka Valley of Megiddo), …when God sends fire on Magog and those who live in the coastlands (i.e., Lebanon and Gaza )!

Ezekiel 39:9 says those who dwell in the cities of Israel will go out and set on fire and burn the weapons… and they will make fires with them for seven years. Obviously that is not going to happen in the cities, or in Jerusalem! Gog and his hordes are afterward buried in a city called Hamonah in the Valley of Hamon Gog (believed to be the ancient town of Dibon east of the Dead Sea) in Southern Jordan, Ezekiel 39:11, 16.

Gog and his troops historically come from Rosh, Meshech, Tubal, Togarmah & Gomer (i.e., sons of Noah’s 3^rd son, Japheth), called Cimmerians (cf. Gen. 10:3; 1 Chron. 1:6; Ezek. 27:13–14; 38:2, 6; 39:1)—So the people of Turkey, and tribes from Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan, (will come from the north).

The nations attacking peaceful Israel are described as coming from the four corners of the earth at the end of the millennium (Rev. 20:8), hence the other named participants are Persia (east), Ethiopia (south), and Libya (west) …(Ezekiel 38:5–6).

After the battle involving Gog and Magog, (when God destroys them with fire from heaven), Rev. 20:7–10 indicates the final judgments of all three demonic beings; the devil finally joins the Beast and the False Prophet in the lake of fire and brimstone, where they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

[1] Jesus was sitting on the Mt. of Olives when he spoke about the Days of Vengeance in Luke 21:22. He was referring to the second half of the scripture verse in Isaiah 61:2a, which also had to be fulfilled (Luke 4:18–19). During his self-professed ‘commissioning’ in the synagogue in Nazareth at the start of His ministry, Jesus stopped reading before he got to those words, thus inferring that the ‘acceptable year of the LORD’ and His ministry, were quite separate from the ‘day of vengeance of our God.’

The events that occurred between AD 66–74 were not primarily God’s WRATH, but Rome’s WRATH and revenge. Thus, the Days of Vengeance that Jesus spoke PRIVATELY to His disciples about, were fulfilled in history! Beginning in AD 66, with the Jewish uprising against Rome, the Days of Vengeance included the desolation of Jerusalem in AD 70, and ended with the suicide of the remaining Jewish rebels at Masada in AD 73/4. Josephus reports that the Jewish factions in Jerusalem were already self-destructing and destroying the infrastructure of the city, long before the Roman troops got into it!