Donna and Doves,
Again thanks for your critique of my recent reply to you. And again you bring up good questions and credible talking points concerning what I wrote that don't add up for you (as per your discernment of scripture) as they may have for me. And as you well know individual discernment of scripture can be all over the board. We see it weekly on the 5Doves site.
I will again give you a overview of what I see happening within the end time scenario..... as per scripture..... as I discern it. In doing so I hope to answer / touch on your recent questions or concerns with the biblical discernment or insight given to me.
Let me just say that Jesus told us most everything we need to know in Matthew 24 concerning the end times and when He will come to rescue His followers.
That said.....many people would say that that chapter of Matthew was written to the Jews and we Christians should ignore it. Nothing could be further from the truth. Jesus in that chapter is giving us an exacting overview of what happens to the Jews and the Gentiles alike in those future days. Jesus then later in Matthew 24 focuses directly on what happens to “the elect”....verse 31. The term elect there in Matthew 24:31 refers to the worthy (alive at that time) Jews who the Father saves and the worthy (alive at that time) Gentiles who have accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior who He gathers and saves.
So back-tracking to Matthew 24:6-14 we see Jesus giving us this general over-view of the end times period without many specifics. (The specifics start later in verse 15).
Here in these first selected verses of Matthew 24 Jesus says we can expect wars and rumors of wars, famine, pestilence, earthquakes but He says that this will just be the beginning of sorrows.
He then tells us that as “the elect” (Jew and Gentile as described above) that we can expect tribulation / persecution and be hated by all nations (think United Nations) as followers of Jesus or faithful followers of God the Father. He said they will kill us. Revelation 6: 11 seems to bare witness to this.
Consequently many of us will be intimidated / offended / scared / unprepared and will turn on (rat on) their own fellow Christians and some will even turn on their own families to prevent being taken away and killed by the demonic authorities that will rule the world at that time.
These demonic world authorities are here now due to the voting machines of the Western countries having been badly compromised within the last decade...... consequently the nightmare, the hunt down, of “the elect” will begin to play out.
Jesus said of this time in verse 12..... there will be lawlessness. I am 71 years old and I have never seen lawlessness like is now displayed and flaunted in America.
Jesus said in verse 11 that of this time that false prophets would rise up and deceive many. Are we seeing that now? Absolutely!! Just this week many of the top evangelical leaders in America (hirelings) led by Franklin Graham (of all people) came out to promote the DNA altering covid 19 vaccines. Graham even going so far as to say that Jesus Himself would have taken and recommended taking these new vaccines. That's off the charts complete and utter blasphemy on a scale that should scare all Christians as to who they consider to be their Christian leaders. Again...these evangelical leaders are sadly and horribly just well paid hirelings. It was recently revealed that many of the top evangelical ministries here in America get millions of dollars a year from Israel to promote the false -Jewish cabal that Jesus twice warned us about in Revelation 2:9 and 3:9.
Think about the horrific blasphemy of what Franklin Graham said or inferred.....that the God-man, Jesus, who healed the sick and raised the dead effortlessly wherever He went would somehow need and have taken a man-made experimental concoction derived from a line of aborted baby cells and other witches brew ingredients. Demonic ingredients that Luis Vega shared with us last week. Here's his post.
http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/mar2021/luisv321.htm
The next thing we see Jesus say in Matthew 24 is that the gospel of the kingdom will be preached to all of the world (obviously by the two end time witnesses) and then the end would come. And He said that those of us that endured to that end would be saved.
Endured to the end of what? Jesus is speaking to and focused on what happens to “the elect”. So when is the end of this tribulation for them? Answer... When they are gathered by Jesus....verse 31. To me this is not the end of the nearly 7 year tribulation period but the end of what “the elect” must tolerate before we are gathered by Jesus and His angels.....again verse 31.
So...I'm saying that at the end of the 1260 day ministry of the two witnesses or around that time frame we, the elect, will be gathered and saved.
Saved how? Both Paul in... 2 Thessalonians 2:1 and Jesus in..... Matthew 24:31 say that Jesus and His angels (on The Day of Christ) will gather us, the elect, and take us away. Gather us …..not rapture us.
So basically Jesus is saying that there is no pre-tribulation escape event of the elect........ until the 1260 day ministry is over or nearly over.
Does Paul agree / concur with this? Yes...Absolutely!!
Again.... in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 Paul says (I'll paraphrase these verses)....Paul says, Don't be deceived....The gathering to Christ will not happen until “a great falling away” comes first and until the antichrist is revealed, and until he (the antichrist) exalts himself above all that is called God, (or that is worshiped as God) and until he the antichrist sits in the temple of God declaring that he is indeed God of all.
What's this great falling away?
Well lets just say for the sake of numbers that there are now 1 billion professing Christians in thousands of churches world-wide..... and “Father worthy” Jews as opposed to the false Jews Jesus talks about in Revelation 2:9 and 3:9. These two groups will comprise “the alive elect” at that time..
What would you expect that 1 billion number to do when these Christians and Jews begin to be hunted down and killed as Jesus predicted / prophesied in Matthew 24:9-13 and Revelation 6:11 ??
Would not there be a great falling away from Christianity as referenced by Paul in 2 Thessalonians?? Human nature, human survival would almost mandate / insure that happening. One would distance themselves and their families from this extreme demonic danger any way they could. In this case they would abandon their relationship with Christianity for self preservation purposes. The result.....a great falling away....
So we learned from both Jesus in Matthew and Paul in 2 Thessalonians that there will be no life line, life raft, no gathering to Christ, until there is a great falling away of the church and a well established antichrist who (after several years) sets up a talking avatar of himself (the abomination of desolation) in Jerusalem demanding that it and he be worshiped as the true God of everything.
So now can we zoom in and be more specific as to when Jesus gathers the elect? Yes.....Starting is verse 15 of Matthew 24 Jesus becomes much more specific. He says when you see the “abomination of desolation” spoken of by Daniel the prophet standing / set-up in the holy place...... flee to the mountains. And flee with utmost hast.
So what is this abomination that will cause desolation? And when does Daniel say this abomination comes into play? And why the hurry to flee to the mountains?
Jesus (as God) realizes that this talking statue, this avatar of the antichrist that is set up in Jerusalem will as per Revelation 13 be required under the pentalty of death to be worshipped by those in Jerusalem.
And I believe Jesus certainly knows that His Father, God the Father will (at this point) no longer tolerate the extreme blasphemy being portrayed and played out on earth, there in Jerusalem, against the real triune God by the antichrist.
The Father will then act (come to earth) as per Isaiah, Zechariah and Matthew to not only destroy the demonic statue and the high wall it stands on but also to terra-form or modify the landscape for hundreds of square miles adjacent to Jerusalem. And as I have stated several times before this is all scripted in Isaiah 25 and Zechariah 14 for all to see.
Mountains split, huge valley created, new river formed and a great great deal of land modified and readied for the arrival of the Father's relocated kingdom to earth which because of it's size, Isaiah keeps referring to as a mountain.
Jesus warned these people there in Matthew 24:16 to run toward the mountains because He knew the other directions of land would very soon be destroyed / re-landscaped / terra-formed by His Father when the Father saw the abominable statue of the antichrist set up in the Father's holy city.
Isaiah said of this that the Father would..... as a swimmer doing the breast stroke.... reach out his arms and landscape the land to fit His needs. In doing so the land will be trampled like straw for the refuge heap. In the process of doing this Isaiah says that....He, the Father, will bring down their pride, together with the trickery of their hands. Bring down the fortress of the high fort of your walls....He will bring the high fort of their walls down to the ground and turn it to dust.
Now what do you think Isaiah was referring to when he said that the prideful, treacherous high fort of their walls would be brought down to the ground by the Father and turned to dust? My vote goes to the avatar / talking representation / blasphemous statue of the antichrist erected in Jerusalem for all to see and worship.
Jesus pretty much gives us a very firm heads up in Matthew 24:15 that nearly as soon as this statue shows up in Jerusalem it will be destroyed by the Father along with hundreds of square miles of the Middle East where the Father is going to park His kingdom. It appears this kingdom complex will abut (be adjacent to Jerusalem) and extend in directions that would not compromise those Jesus warned to flee to the mountains....or north.
This to me will be the start of the period scripted over and over and over again in the bible as.... the Day of the Lord.
The Day of the Lord scenario has multiple multiple facets and happenings. It's when The Father and Son show up on earth to deal with what's going on and administer their wrath. Part of this Day of the Lord scenario, the start, is seen in Revelation 6:12-17. The world will be beyond shocked when God gets their complete attention with a huge worldwide earthquake and then darkens the sun and moon, drops the stars to earth like over-ripe figs (happening daily right now, fireballs in the sky exploding all over the world) and then rolls up the sky like the ceiling on a planetarium.
It's at the start of this period of time known as The Day of the Lord when on a special day known only to the Father as scripted in Zechariah 14:6-7 and Matthew 24:36 the Father appears to stop / alter time and maneuvers His and Jesus's forces into position without interference from the prince of this earth and his forces....Satan.
Part of this maneuvering is when the sign of the Son of Man appears in the sky above. Matthew 24:30 By this time the ministry of the two witnesses will have just finished or about to be finished. The first half of the antichrist's reign (42 months) will also be over and a great multitude will have been tricked and deceived into following the antichrist rather that the gospel of the kingdom preached by the two witnesses.
Everyone alive on earth will have made their choice by that point after being exposed to both the two witnesses and the antichrist's ministries for 1260 days or 42 months. And yes indeed as per Matthew 24:30 all the tribes on earth who have chosen badly will mourn....greatly regret their choice.....when they see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with power and great glory. These multitudes of people will then realize and mourn deeply because they will realize it's to late and they made the wrong choice in choosing a false god …....the antichrist.
Then..... The Father enacts / begins His special day when time and reality somehow are interrupted. He relocates His huge kingdom complex abut / adjacent to Jerusalem. And also on this special day (Matthew 24:31) Jesus and His angels gather “the elect” to be taken to the Fathers house which has now been relocated to earth in the new huge complex bordering Jerusalem. Matthew 6
Also in Matthew 24:29 Jesus refers to the tribulation of those days. That immediately after the tribulation of those days the Day of the Lord scenario would start. Jesus refers to the same circumstances as we see in Revelation 6....sun will be darkened, the moon will not give its light, the stars will fall from heaven and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
So what are these “tribulations” that immediately afterward prompt The Day of the Lord scenario to begin?
Zechariah says in chapter 14 that war will be happening then (at that time) and Israel will be under attack by all nations.... think The United Nations led by antichrist.
In Zechariah 14 we see the Father (obviously now on earth) intervene in a huge way for His covenant people when this happens....again it's all expressed there in chapter 14. And yes, as is described there in Zechariah great tribulation will be occurring in Israel and I'm sure everywhere else under the antichrist's then reign.
And also there in verse 1 of Zechariah 14, it refers to this as The Day of the Lord coming. As I said before The Day of the Lord is not a day but a season of time when many many things happen as the Father and Son orchestrate their separate and collective agendas. The day of Christ as referenced by Paul in 2 Thessalonians refers to the gathering of the elect.....just as is described in Matthew 24.
All on earth will absolutely know when the official kick-off of The Day of the Lord starts and the Father and Son make their presence known. Just read Revelation 6:12-17 or Matthew 24:29. Or read Habakkuk 3 (the whole chapter) for a blow by blow arrival of the Father and Son. The Triune God is very displeased and the world will be shocked to the bone at their arrival.
Jesus in Matthew 24:15 told us that Daniel the prophet put a time stamp of sorts on this event / events so that we would know where in the total tribulation period this event occurs. So Daniel in chapter 12 said that when we see the talking avatar, the representation of the antichrist or the abomination that causes destruction / desolation set-up in Jerusalem.....an abomination that would generate / prompt the start of The Day of the Lord....that would generate the Father coming to earth and renovating a huge track of land in the Middle East....that would generate the Father to intervene for His covenant people who were under attack in Israel.....that would generate Jesus and His angels to gather up “the elect” and take them to the Father's new relocated kingdom.....that, at that point....when this blasphemous statue is first set up..... there would be 1290 days remaining until the end of the tribulation period.
We learn in Zechariah 14 that when Israel is under attack and the Father intervenes that He only saves a remnant of these Jews....the worthy ones (I presume). As per Zechariah these Jewish refugees escape into the new valley and the new kingdom complex that the Father has just created there adjacent to Jerusalem. Verses 4-5.
Revelation 12 expresses the exact same scenario. That the Father prepares a place in the wilderness where “the woman” (referring to the remnant Jews) would have a place of safety and be fed for 1260 days.....or until the end of the tribulation period.
Read the short but telling chapter of Isaiah 12 where these Jewish refugees are singing the Father's praises as He is among them inside the Father's new complex.
It's my opinion that this new huge refuge, this huge new complex that has been created (and the earth modified for) is the New Jerusalem. I say this because of Isaiah....Isaiah is lost for words every time he tries to describe this new huge complex he is seeing.
Isaiah can only describe this new kingdom complex as....a mountain. Then he says in Isaiah 25:6.....in this mountain. Meaning that Isaiah realizes that this complex has sides and depth and obviously height.
Then Isaiah said....verse 10.....For on this mountain the hand of the Lord will rest. Meaning to me that it's a secure and safe place free from any of Satan's forces and yes a place of safety for the Jewish remnant that have escaped to there when Israel was under attack by....all nations. A place of safety for them for 1260 days.
It's the Father new earthly kingdom as Jesus prophesied in Matthew 6 when praying to the Father....thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth, as it is in heaven.
This said....now consider these Jewish war refugees now inside and in the safety of the Father's new complex, the Father's house, so to speak.
Now consider the famous words of Psalm 23 as being literal and what that wording / interpretation really means or is referring to.
These Jewish refugees are now in the completely safety of the Father's new house after fearing for their very lives for years under the first half of the antichrist's reign and now they have 1260 days of divine protection provided for them by the Father until the tribulation period is over. They are completely overjoyed to be safe in this new valley (Zechariah 14:4-5) within the Father's new earthly kingdom complex which is the size of a great mountain....that I believe is New Jerusalem.
And here's what these Jewish refugees proclaim.......it's Psalm 23....
The Lord is my shepherd; ( He is there and directly watching over them....Isaiah 12:6 authenticates this)
I shall not want.
He makes me lie down in green pastures;
He leads me beside still waters. (New river emanating from Jerusalem containing living waters...Zechariah 14:8)
He restores my soul; Ezekiel 37 says that at some point the Father will put His Spirit in these people (the Jews that He has a covenant with) and they will not defile themselves any more
He leads me in the paths of righteousness
For His names sake.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow
of death, (Everything external to this compound in Satanic territory, so hence, the shadow of that represents death)
I will fear no evil;
For you are with me; (the Father is right there with these alive remnant Jews. This fact is also expressing concerning all of this in Isaiah 12 especially verse 6)
Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me. (legions of angels and the power of the Almighty to insure their safety)
You provide a table for me in the presence of my
enemies; (Again Revelation 12 says these Jews from “the woman” are fed and taken care of for 1260 days. And Satan's forces are right outside the complex. Also Isaiah 25:6 speaks of the food served within this mountain of a structure)
You anoint my head with oil;
My cup runs over.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me
All the days of my life;
And I will dwell in the house of the Lord
forever.
When one comes to the understanding of the overall events that transpire in Zechariah 14, Isaiah 25, Isaiah 12, Revelation 12, and other passages concerning this whole story-line........then the exact meaning of the wording displayed in Psalms 23 becomes crystal clear and so point on.
So when one puts all these prophecies and story-lines together which I referred to above they all dovetail together around a central hub and that central hub is shouted about by Jesus Himself. That central hub where many things and time frames are dove-tailed together IMHO is when the abomination is set up in Jerusalem. The talking statue, the avatar or representation of the antichrist. Daniel says this happens 1290 days before the end of those days. And within a few days of the statue's erection or better put within a few days of the antichrist declaring himself God of everything ...... the Father and Son will have had enough and The Day of the Lord will literally explode upon the earth as is described in Revelation 6:12-17 and in many other passages of scripture. The Day of the Lord, which is a period of time, contains great interventions for the Father's covenant peoples and also the Son's followers who have accepted Him as Lord and Savior. It also contains great wrath administered by the Father and Jesus. That's why the second part of the phrase Jesus uttered is......desolation. The abomination that causes great desolation.
It certainly appears that the season known as.... The Day of the Lord...as is seen kicking off in Revelation 6:12-17 happens near or at the midpoint of the 7 years. This event appears to happen after the statue is set up in Jerusalem and then days or a few weeks later the antichrist declares himself to to God of all 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, Revelation 13:5-8.
Which again is the exact event / time frame that Jesus is focused on and alerts us to in Matthew 24:15.
Jesus IMHO is not only alerting those who live in or near Jerusalem to vacate to the mountains but He is also giving His church, His “living at that time” followers a heads-up as well...... that He will within a short period of time....... at the start of the Day of the Lord........be coming to gather them.
Can we surmise when the The (actual) Day of the Lord will happen? I say yes. I say it's the same day the antichrist declares he is God over all. And what day might that be? As per Revelation 11 no one on earth was able to harm the two witnesses until God allowed the antichrist to kill the two witnesses.
The antichrist will use this event, the killing of the two witnesses, to brag to / seemingly prove to the world, that he is indeed God of all.
Revelation 11 states that the ministry of the two witnesses is 1260 days. So it would be safe to say that the antichrist was allowed to kill them on or near the 1260th day.
At what day does the bible say that the antichrist declares himself to be God? As per Revelation 13:5....at the 42 month mark.
Gee 42 months equals 1260 days so we are looking at the exact same day. Revelation 13 authenticates Revelation 11.
This tells us that when the two witnesses and the antichrist show up on the world stage that they show up on or nearly on the very same day. It shows us that the ministry of the two witnesses and the first 42 months of the antichrist's reign run concurrently.
So I am saying that.... The Day of the Lord, the day when The Father and Son arrive face to face with humanity will explode onto the world the same day that the antichrist kills the two witnesses and declares himself God over all......or 1260 days into the tribulation period as per Revelation 11 and 13.
Is there anything else that appears to substantiate this? Yes
At the resurrection of the two witnesses 3.5 days after they lie dead on the street in Jerusalem......a great earthquake hits killing many people. It appears to me this is the exact same great earthquake forecast in Revelation 6 which as we know kicks off the multifaceted season of time and events labeled as The Day of the Lord.
I believe these two prophesied earthquakes (Revelation 11 and Revelation 6) are the same great earthquake that will be felt around the world signaling the arrival of The Father and Son to earth. At that point the sun and moon will go dark, the stars will fall from the sky like over-ripe figs and the sky above will roll up like a scroll.
And this is when “the elect”, the alive worthy Jews and the alive followers of Jesus can expect to be gathered up by Jesus and Jesus's angels and taken to the safety of the Father's house which will then be relocated in the Middle East on a very special day known only to the Father. A day when the Father seems to alter time in a way where Satan, the prince of this world, cannot interfere with the gathering or the kingdom relocation process.
I have written much in my previous posts on what happens to Jesus's church....the dead and the alive (at that time) after they are gathered and taken within the confines of the Father's new kingdom complex which will be then here on earth. So I won't plow that ground again or re-discuss being born again there, or married there, or attending a huge feast there or being changed from mortal to immortal there while rising to met Jesus above the Father's complex......(or the so called rapture moment)
If one does the research, the modern day interpretation of the rapture scenario is a recent (new) phenomenon in the history of the church.....within the last 100 years.
One would have to completely discount or ignore what Jesus in Matthew or Paul in 2 Thessalonians have plainly stated in scripture to ever believe what is being pushed now.
That some sort of golden ticket / rapid pre-trib sudden removal of “the elect” will happen. IMHO that is not anywhere near what scripture describes to be the coming reality.
When the two witnesses and the antichrist (the cryogentically preserved shell of John Paul II indwelled by a spirit from the bottomless pit) show up on the world stage we can start our count-down to when we are gathered by Jesus and His angels as per Matthew 24 and 2 Thessalonians 2.
Blessings Donna.......John B
PS..the book of Joshua scripts when the gathering to the Father’s house happens. Joshua has it happening in the spring....in Nissan. If one then does the math 1260 days or 42 months prior to that would be in the fall. Meaning that the two witnesses and the antichrist show up in the fall of some year.......this coming year??