just a side note:  noticed Barry A. and several others recently quoting the scripture about "refining (us) as silver is refined".  Mentioned this a few years back, but it bears repeating: I went on a trip to Dollywood once (Highly recommended...it is as much a center for learning and encouraging old-world crafts as anything else!).  After watching a silversmith ply his craft for a while, my daughter asked him how he knew when to stop the refining process (repeated multiple times....heated, melted, hammered).  The man turned to her and said:  "...each piece is different and takes a different touch.  But a master silversmith will know it is perfect when all he can see is his own reflection in it."  People....WE are being refined as silver.  Don't begrudge the unbearable heat, the terrible hammering, the melting away....because soon, we will see nothing but our Father's face reflected from our soul!  Bring it ON!!!!  (Uh-ohh....did I really just say that?  Yikes!)  Tracydee