RE: Marilyn Agee: 6 Jun, referencing Gary B’s post of 4 June

I am astounded. I don’t know any other way to say it. Here is a quote from this letter.
“That can't be true. The foolish virgins are on earth after the First-Trump Rapture. They are members of all nations. The Laodiceans that do not repent are on earth after the First-Trump Rapture. They are members of all nations. Scripture says that people "OF ALL NATIONS" are caught up to Heaven in the Last-Trump Rapture. Maybe you skipped from reading about the 144,000 Israelites in Rev 7:8 to Rev 7:14. Here are the verses in between.”
I have never heard of a “First-Trump Rapture.” I don’t think the Apostle Paul has heard of it either. Please show us the scriptures for this new rapture. Here is what Paul – the ONLY writer of the bible with revelation about the rapture – wrote about trumpets associated with the rapture:

1 Thes. 4
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

Here Paul does not give us any information about which trumpet.

1 Cor. 15
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Therefore I submit that the ONLY rapture concerning the church will come at the “LAST trump.” Paul does not tell us of another rapture for the church. The bible gives us no hint of another rapture for the church. Why then, do we have believers believing in a second rapture?

Please, doves, help me out here; show me some scripture! There is a hint of another rapture, but that is for the 144,000 JEWS that were sealed for their protection during the trumpet judgments. The next time John saw them, they were around the throne in heaven. There is no hint that they were martyred, so our only guess is that they were raptured to heaven as firstfruits of the Jews. I use “Jews” here loosely to mean all sons of Jacob. Many people believe Paul is referencing the last long and final trumpet blast at the feast of trumpets, for it is called “the last trump.” This is the Jewish feast of Rosh Hashanah. It is one feast that the date is always unknown: no one knows the day, because it is dependant on seeing the new moon.

“Yom Teruah is the only festival that no man knows when exactly it will occur. This is due to the fact that it begins on the new moon. The new moon was sanctified when two witnesses see the new moon and attest to it before the Sanhedrin in the Temple.”  http://watch.pair.com/rosh-hashana.html

This last trumpet blast is not associated in any way with the 7 trumpets of Revelation. It is associated with the feast of Rosh Hashanah. This last trumpet blast will be sounded at least 3 1/2 years before Revelation’s 7th trumpet that marks the exact midpoint of the 70th week.

Also note, Paul wrote that this was a “mystery.” In other words, nothing written before this time could be about the rapture, else it would not be a “mystery.” So many Christians believe the gathering of the elect in Matthew 24 is speaking of the rapture. If this gathering was about the rapture of the church, Paul could not have written that his rapture was a mystery. The truth is, the Matthew 24 gathering is not about the church. The rapture gathers people from around the earth; this gathering spoken of by Jesus gathers people from heaven and the earth. It is God bringing all of Jacob back to Israel; perhaps for the great judgment of the nations.

Jesus was very clear; some that are called “Christian” will be considered by God to be lukewarm, and will be left behind. I personally believe all those not watching for His coming will be left behind. He is coming for those watching for Him. If there are some doves that believe in their heart that they will see the antichrist first – please tell the rest of us doves: can you possibly be watching for His coming with all your heart when you believe you will see the antichrist first? I don’t know the answer to this question, so I am asking.  Make no mistake: the Day of the Lord and the 70th week FOLLOW the rapture. This is both John’s and Paul’s chronology. John is also very clear, the wrath of God and the wrath of Satan will be happening AT THE SAME TIME, running concurrently. Therefore, the prewrath theory is in error. John’s chronology is God-given and cannot be rearranged. Any theory that must rearrange the chronology of Revelation is immediately suspect, and will be proven wrong.

Yours
Lyle