Hi Julia,

 

I have been reading 2 Esdras lately again too. (Whenever I get depressed because we are still here and I need encouragement I go to sources like this or maybe Book of Enoch...)

 

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/june2013/julia621.htm

 

Those are good points that your mom suggested that I had not thought of but I'll just tell you what usually came to my mind when I read these passages:

 

4Ezra.5

1 - "Now concerning the signs: behold, the days are coming when those who dwell on earth shall be seized with great terror, and the way of truth shall be hidden, and the land shall be barren of faith.

2 - And unrighteousness shall be increased beyond what you yourself see, and beyond what you heard of formerly.

3 - And the land which you now see ruling shall be waste and untrodden, and men shall see it desolate.

4 - But if the Most High grants that you live, you shall see it thrown into confusion after the third period; and the sun shall suddenly shine forth at night,

and the moon during the day.

5 - Blood shall drip from wood,

and the stone shall utter its voice;

the peoples shall be troubled,

and the stars shall fall.

6 - And one shall reign whom those who dwell on earth do not expect, and the birds shall fly away together;

7 - and the sea of Sodom shall cast up fish; and one whom the many do not know shall make his voice heard by night, and all shall hear his voice.

8 - There shall be chaos also in many places, and fire shall often break out, and the wild beasts shall roam beyond their haunts, and menstruous women shall bring forth monsters.

9 - And salt waters shall be found in the sweet, and all friends shall conquer one another; then shall reason hide itself, and wisdom shall withdraw into its chamber,

10 - and it shall be sought by many but shall not be found, and unrighteousness and unrestraint shall increase on earth.

11 - And one country shall ask its neighbor, `Has righteousness, or any one who does right, passed through you?' And it will answer, `No.'

12 - And at that time men shall hope but not obtain; they shall labor but their ways shall not prosper.

13 - These are the signs which I am permitted to tell you, and if you pray again, and weep as you do now, and fast for seven days, you shall hear yet greater things than these."

 

4Ezra.6:

 

9 - For Esau is the end of this age, and Jacob is the beginning of the age that follows.

10 - For the beginning of a man is his hand, and the end of a man is his heel; between the heel and the hand seek for nothing else, Ezra!"

11 - I answered and said, "O sovereign Lord, if I have found favor in thy sight,

12 - show thy servant the end of thy signs which thou didst show me in part on a previous night."

13 - He answered and said to me, "Rise to your feet and you will hear a full, resounding voice.

14 - And if the place where you are standing is greatly shaken

15 - while the voice is speaking, do not be terrified; because the word concerns the end, and the foundations of the earth will understand

16 - that the speech concerns them. They will tremble and be shaken, for they know that their end must be changed."

17 - When I heard this, I rose to my feet and listened, and behold, a voice was speaking, and its sound was like the sound of many waters.

18 - And it said, "Behold, the days are coming, and it shall be that when I draw near to visit the inhabitants of the earth,

19 - and when I require from the doers of iniquity the penalty of their iniquity, and when the humiliation of Zion is complete,

20 - and when the seal is placed upon the age which is about to pass away, then I will show these signs: the books shall be opened before the firmament, and all shall see it together.

21 - Infants a year old shall speak with their voices, and women with child shall give birth to premature children at three and four months, and these shall live and dance.

22 - Sown places shall suddenly appear unsown, and full storehouses shall suddenly be found to be empty

23 - and the trumpet shall sound aloud, and when all hear it, they shall suddenly be terrified.

24 - At that time friends shall make war on friends like enemies, and the earth and those who inhabit it shall be terrified, and the springs of the fountains shall stand still, so that for three hours they shall not flow.

25 -"And it shall be that whoever remains after all that I have foretold to you shall himself be saved and shall see my salvation and the end of my world.

26 - And they shall see the men who were taken up, who from their birth have not tasted death; and the heart of the earth's inhabitants shall be changed and converted to a different spirit.

27 - For evil shall be blotted out, and deceit shall be quenched;

28 - faithfulness shall flourish, and corruption shall be overcome, and the truth, which has been so long without fruit, shall be revealed."

29 -While he spoke to me, behold, little by little the place where I was standing began to rock to and fro

30 - And he said to me, "I have come to show you these things this night.

 

 

I think first of all Ezra did not say he saw infants live and dance but this voice was describing what would happen and it said that women with child, (actual pregnant women) would give birth to premature children at three and four months and these shall live and dance. Sort of eliminates the cgi. fulfillment for me but that was an interesting proposal. My favorite passage here is where it says in verse 26 they shall see the men who were taken up, who from their birth have not tasted death.

 

This sounds like at the final end when Jesus comes back after the trib to judge everything and set up his kingdom. We will have been already raptured by this time for we are coming back with Jesus here. But the earlier passage where blood drips from wood and the stone shall utter its voice etc. I think that is more like the beginning of the trib and it includes birds flying away. Maybe that is us leaving? And it says one who the people do not expect will reign and all will hear his voice and wild beasts will leave their haunts and menstruous women will bring forth monsters. This sounds like hybrids and reminds me of what Colton Burpo said in his dad's book "Heaven is for Real" that there would be a war and his dad would fight with the other good men and Jesus against the bad people and the monsters.

 

All these kinds of descriptions of terrible things that are not normal happening at what I think is right from the start of the trib are what makes me believe that there is no way that we are currently in any of it yet. It is my belief that as soon as the trib starts and we are removed, then immediately the world will not be normal again but will have all these crazy things going on from then on until Jesus comes back to finish them off and set up His kingdom for a thousand years. Notice the way that it describes how those who dwell on earth will be seized with great terror, and the way of truth shall be hidden, and the land shall be barren of faith. This sounds to me like the beginning of the trib and when the rapture happens. Certainly this is not happening now for we still have the faith among us but once we are gone, then all these things will immediately begin to happen.

 

Many years ago I had my own rapture dream in which I saw stars moving across the sky and I knew that it was the rapture and I leapt to my feet (in the dream I had been lying down outside in a field looking up into the night sky when I saw first one star moving swiftly across the sky then others too.) I ran with my arm outstretched saying "Take me!" or something like that and suddenly I flew up into the sky at an enormous rate of speed and force. I was so exhilarated and I really thought it was the real rapture and I was overjoyed. I became immediately aware that on earth was pure evil now and not a place you want to be and I actually felt like as fast as I was flying I wanted to fly even faster to get away as surely as possible and I was concerned that I didn't run out of "gas" or in any way possible fall back to earth because it was so bad there now. I then began hoping that this was indeed the real rapture and not a dream but as soon as I thought that, I became aware that it was just a dream and I woke up but God said He was giving me this dream to answer my question of am I ready? And he said close your eyes and I did and I was right back in the rapture again flying in the sky but it was bright not dark like at first because now it was like daylight up where I was. Then it ended and I was just in my dark bedroom but God was still there smiling and very happy with me and so was I.

 

Bottom line, I don't know where we are in a "timeline" but my personal belief is that we have not yet entered into any of the "tribulation" or "Daniel's 70th week" or any of that because when it happens it will be very evil on earth far worse than things are now.