Hello, John and Doves,And yet (to borrow a phrase from Raul Ries), it is written,"1As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful naturea and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. 4But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."Clearly, if we fail to walk in those works by grace through faith, then we fail Him.In one fell swoop, Rabbi Shaul has addressed all these issues in the second chapter of his letter to the Ephesians.Baruch HaShem Adonai Roi,Mike C._________________________________________________David S (7 June 2011)
"To Barry Amundsen Re: on Law and grace"
To Barry Amundsen Re: on Law and grace
Greetings Barry,
Thank you for your reply.
We were discussing chapter 3 of Galatians so I’ll just quote the passage here.
Gal 3:10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be every one who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, and do them."
So, yes, Paul is saying anyone who keeps the law for salvation is cursed. Because why?
11 It is evident that no man is justified before God by the law; for "He who through faith is righteous shall live";
Paul’s point is that you can’t be saved or justified or made righteous by the law, it was not designed to provide that, it was intended only to point out sin (Ps 19:11, Ro 3:20 & 7:7). Now because the law is unable to make people righteous is it a failure, has it failed to accomplish its mission? No, because it was never intended to justify anyone, that is why to try and use it to be justified results in complete failure. It would be like taking a car to the airport and trying to fly with it. Cars were never designed to fly but that doesn’t mean they’re useless or failures, for they perform very well what they were intended for. To insist that people must become righteous through the law, as certain Jews in Galatia did, is what Paul calls “the yoke of bondage.” It’s impossible, they’re never going to get off the ground with it. Peter speaks of this in Acts 15:10 when he says, “Why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?” No one can do the impossible and using the law for what it was not made for (to become justified) is an exercise in futility, like trying to fly in your Chevy. Paul hammers away at that over and over.
Gal 2:16 A man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ.
Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight.
So, what is this “curse” of the law?
Eze 18:4 The soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Ro 6:23 For the wages (price) of sin is death.
Jas 1:15…and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
So what is sin?
1Jo 3:4 Sin is the transgression of the law.
So the “curse” is death – eternal death or the second death (see Rev 21:8). Now back to Galatians chapter 3.
Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us.
Christ became “sin for us” (2Co 5:21) when He was nailed to the tree. Peter tells us Jesus, “Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree” (1Pe 2:24), and so when he was nailed to the tree so was the “handwriting,” the certificate of debt, the bond or note, the IOU. When a man commits murder it is not the law of murder that is against him, after all it is a perfectly moral law, what is against him is the charge of breaching the law of murder. When the Queen or the President pardons such a man they aren’t rescinding the entire law but only the single charge of violating that law. God's holy ordinances were not nailed to the tree, the certificate of debt resulting in our death sentence was nailed to the tree. That is why Paul said the Colossians were "dead in your sins," as did Peter. Jesus took our curse and nailed it to the cross he did not take the law, otherwise murder and stealing would no longer be a sin. He took the condemnation against us, the debt or penalty we owed and nailed it to the cross, marked -“Paid in full!”
You wrote:
“Paul is telling us that we have already kept the Law therefore he is not suggesting that the Law be not kept any more than I am suggesting that.”
Did you just say you (and Paul) are “not suggesting that the Law be not kept?” I asked if you realize you are telling people not to keep the law and your answer was – “YES, I do!” But here, if I understand you correctly, you are saying the law should be kept. Could you help me understand this inconsistency?
You wrote:
“It is our faith in God's promises that God gives us righteousness for not our attemtps to keep the law.”
I absolutely agree, for attempting to keep the law can never save us but only helps us from sinning again.
You wrote:
“When a person accepts what Jesus has done for them, and commits their life to Him they are keeping the commandments of God.”
This sounds like when you’re born again it’s impossible to sin. It’s not exactly OSAS but pretty close. Are we not told, “if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous” (1Jo 2:1)? Only belief in the Son of God’s sacrifice at Calvary cleanses us of all sin but does not make us invincible to stumbling and sinning again. Having accepted Christ’s pardon we must desire more then ever to be obedient to the Father’s commandments, for surely we long to please Him. This would help explain the following verses:
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life.
Faith in Christ’s cleansing sacrifice and striving to obey God’s commandments is what’s required.
Blessings,
David S