Hey David,

You said:

I certainly agree. Do you Patti or anyone else on the board believe that if an alcoholic repents and stops drinking he/she is saved even if alcohol still sometimes entice them but they controls the temptation? The same with a converted thief who is tempted but manages to restrain themselves , or a former liar who sometimes almost slips up but catches themselves, or a homosexual who is drawn to that awful sin but contains themselves and never sins? Can these people still claim to be saved if they still sometimes feel inclined to sin (temptation) even though they never cross the line and sin or can a person only be considered saved if he or she is never tempted after repenting and being converted?

This would have me greatly is I could get some of your opinions.

Everyone sins, even after they are saved...Look at the church of Corinth..they were committing sexual sins and Paul never said a) repent of your sins or b) you are lost now that you weren't able to control yourself.

We are told to try. To flee temptation. Really the more often we say no to our sin trends the easier it is not to participate in that particular sin pattern. (but more will spring up as sins are like weeds) We are not less saved if  we do give in...look at David. We get into trouble when a) we were never saved to begin with but some well meaning Christian said say this prayer and you have a get out of hell free card or b) we wantonly disregard what God says about sin.  It is not that if we sin we are not saved, because even John says, "if we sin, we have an advocate with the Father", the presumption is that we will fall from time to time. The goal is to not stay in sin, recognize it for what it is and move on.

Being a homosexual is just as bad as being disobedient to your parents - they are the same thing (as in each one of the 10 commandments). In fact thou shall not commit adultery could be read "be faithful to your wife" whether you have been or are married or not. God just assumes that you will marry (a woman). He is just as angry about "sleeping around" or having sex outside of wedlock no matter what gender you choose to break the commandment with is.


Patriotism is another sin. Did you realize that? I am not talking about liking the country you live in or obeying the laws, but there is a form of patriotism that supersedes ones respect for God. And though many may disagree, for the most part the conservative right in the US is falling headlong down that sin path.  We are just here to visit, our groom is coming soon to take us away.

Maranatha,
~Jill