Arlene an Mike W,

 

Thanks for your comments

 

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/june2012/arlene620.htm

 

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/june2012/mikew620.htm

 

This is very interesting that two different responses to me both have very significant things to say here that should clarify some of the confusion about what happens as we enter the time of the "rapture" as well as what we mean by "lose your salvation" or what is actually lost.

 

Mike you said your main area of uncertainty is whether a Christian can lose his salvation while at the same time Arlene shows us with her post the significance of Jacob's Ladder in bringing all into one in Christ.

 

In short I believe that as stated in Arlene's article that she posted, we all become Israelites in Christ but just as in the example of Israel entering into the Promised Land, some made it in alive and some had to die in the wilderness first. I believe this is happening again now. At the rapture some will enter in alive and some will remain behind and have to die in this wilderness but will still be "saved". Just as Moses was of course still "saved" but he died in the wilderness because he struck the rock the second time.

 

Even as Paul said whoever has wood, hay, stubble will see their works burn up yet he himself shall be saved yet so as by fire

 

1 Corinthians 3:

 11.  For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
 12.  Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
 13.  Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
 14.  If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. [I believe the reward is the rapture.]
 15.  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. [I believe the fire is the tribulation.]
 16.  Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
 17.  If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

 

Okay, the day shall declare it, which day? And why will God destroy someone who has the Holy Spirit dwelling in them? Unless it means destroy their physical body in the tribulation but not their salvation.

 

I know that many are teaching that we all will be raptured at once before the tribulation and then this judgment occurs in heaven to see what sort of works we have and we receive rewards or shame based on the results but I don't see that here. Rather because of other scriptures including but not limited to the ones about Moses that we have mentioned I think when it says for the day shall declare it  I think this is the rapture day. Yet if we have been all taken to heaven how can the day declare what sort of works we have there for we know that once we have been raptured into heaven we are outside of the time/space continuum and by that no longer in the day so the day cannot be declaring it then. But if the day shall declare what sort of works we have then to me it could only mean that the rapture day will be what sorts out our works and will determine reward of being raptured or being shamed at having to remain here and still be saved yet so as by the fire of the tribulation. This then makes sense of him shall God destroy in the tribulation. So I don't believe you "lose" your salvation either Mike, but what a way to have to keep it.

 

And Arlene, this is when I believe God will again deal with all who are left behind as ISRAEL and no longer as the church.

 

What separates the two groups is what manner of works they have built on the foundation of Christ. All in the church are Israelites but not all Israelites will be raptured with the church as Jesus said if you do not repent I will REMOVE your candlestick which means no longer being church but still being Israelite. If our works are wrought in God by us having submitted our lives to Him and doing whatever He commands and getting to KNOW Him, (Philadelphia Church) then they will be gold, silver, precious stones; but if we have been building based on our own or someone else's wrong ideas however noble instead of following His lead including us trying to keep the law and failing then they will be wood, hay, stubble and burn up and I believe that person will not be raptured at all but must face the tribulation and die in the wilderness and that is what Moses was "describing" when he died in the wilderness because he struck the rock the second time.

 

Once the church is gone God will again deal with Israel just as before the church was born and whoever is left here who could have been raptured will now be in that group and saved with Israel as a tribulation saint. There will be a multitude so great that no man could number in this category while the church has always been described as "few" in number. Also it is this tribulation saints group that God wipes away all tears from their eyes not the saints at the judgment seat of Christ as Chuck Missler wrongly suggests. As though some are weeping over their works bein burned up and God wipes those tears away. Those guys will weep alright and wail and gnash their teeth at being left in the tribulation and at the end when they are finally brought to heaven after being faithful unto death then God will wipe away all tears from their eyes.