Lyle Cooper (6 June 2011)
"Answer to Bill Griese (27 May 2011)"


Bill Griese (27 May 2011) 


Bill, you wrote,

The Sixth Seal is a supernatural event and announces the Wrath of God, and also causes a great amount of damage, moving every mountain and island out of place, so you can imagine what it does to cities. This would make it impossible for Antichrist to continue his worldwide control, much less start it from the beginning. Then, immediately, all the kings of the earth, the rich men, and everybody else go into hiding because they're all terrified. Nobody would follow Antichrist after this display of God's power. If Antichrist went to the temple mount and claimed to be God after this everybody would laugh at him, not worship him. The unsaved even tell us they finally know who God is in Rev 6:16 & 17. The evidence shows the Sixth Seal begins the Wrath of God at Christ's Second Coming in the sky, ends Antichrist's control, and can't be at the beginning of the 70th week.

Of course you are free to believe this. But let’s back up a few steps and take a broad view: this is in chapter 6. Revelation goes to chapter 22. In fact, John did not begin the “hereafter” things until chapter 4, so chapter six is at the very beginning of the hereafter.

Yet you want the entire 70th week to be before this? Let’s take a quick look at what comes after the 6th seal. The next event is the 7th seal, which I maintain is the official opening of the 70th week and Day of the Lord: they begin together.  Next comes the trumpet judgments. Finally at the 7th trumpet, God and John are at the midpoint of the week. If you believe Daniel 9:27, the abomination event comes at the exact midpoint of the week, dividing the week into two halves. Jesus told the people that when they see this event, they must run for their lives: flee into the wilderness! And John sees this happening in Rev 12:6. This verse shows the woman (those Jews living in Judea) fleeing. Therefore the middle of the week must come just before chapter 12. More proof that John is at the middle of the week here , are the five different mentions of the last years: given as 42 months, as 1260 days and as time, times and half of time.

So the truth of Revelation is that the man of sin – the Antichrist – is revealed in chapter 11. He does not even begin his reign of terror until AFTER the abomination in chapter 11. Now, where does God introduce John to the Antichrist Beast? Not until chapter 13.  That is the perfect place, because very little time has elapsed from the 7th trumpet that marked the time of the abomination to the start of chapter 13. So John saw the beast rise up immediately after the abomination.  Then, chapter 13 tells us what the Beast will do. It appears that the false prophet shows up AFTER the abomination that reveals the man of sin. So there will be a period of time after the abomination before the mark is set up – but it will certainly be set up. Perhaps after chapter 14, the mark is set up and the killing will have begun. So the days of great tribulation, where people will be forced to take the mark or lose their head, do not begin until AFTER chapter 14.  You will notice that one of the angels that warn the people in chapter 14, warns them NOT to take the mark. Therefore, we can be assured that the mark will not be enforced until AFTER this warning.


Finally, in chapter 15, we see the preparations for the vials of God’s wrath. God will SHORTEN those days of great tribulation by these very vials and associated plagues. If you will notice, the first vial is poured out on those that have the mark of the Beast. Yet you want all this to happen before chapter 6? Sorry Bill, but your theory simply does not fit the text. We have to go by what is written, not by preconceived ideas.  I have noticed that the prewrath crowd also wants to have the days of great tribulation before the 6th seal. They are mistaken. 

Neither God nor John was confused as to the timing or chronology as it is written. Except for a few parentheses, John wrote things in the exact order in which they will happen. Therefore, the events of all chapters after chapter 7 will most certainly happen after the events of chapter 6. We simply do not have the right to rearrange the book! We can be sure then, that the abomination that divides the week in half will come about 3½ years after the 6th seal. All the trumpets (except the 7th) must happen between the 6th seal and the abomination. That is simply the way it is written and no man can change that.


You wrote:
Lyle, I must continue maintaining that Matt 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27 and the Sixth Seal in Rev 6:12-17
 are all the same event. 

Let’s look.

Matt 24
29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
 30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
 31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Where is this in the book of Revelation? When does those days of GT end? John does not tell us exactly, but it will be somewhere in chapter 16, after a few of the vials. The 70th week ends at the 7th vial.  Verse 30 above shows people seeing the Son of Man coming. We know that is in Revelation 19. That is where He comes - not any time before that. Therefore, it is very plain that these verses in Matt. happen LONG after chapter 6.


Mark 13
4But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
 25And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
 26And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Notice verse 4, just as in Matthew, shows this is AFTER the days of great tribulation. Since we KNOW that Jesus comes in chapter 19, then we can be sure that it will be somewhere in chapter 19 that the sun is darkened and the book also is darkened. Please notice, it does not say the moon turns blood red – it says it is darkened. This is a DIFFERENT sign than what we see at the 6th seal.  All the events of your verses in Matthew and Mark will happen somewhere during Revelation chapter 19.  Therefore, we can conclude that there will be TWO times the signs are seen in the sun and moon: first as a warning for the day of the Lord, then again as a warning for the coming of Jesus.

I would take the space here to show it, but BOTH of these signs in the sun and moon are shown in Joel 2 & 3. The first one, in Joel 2, is the moon turning to blood. The second one, in Joel 3, is clearly in the context, when Jesus comes physically to earth.  And there we read:  The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.” Again, this is showing us that these signs are shown TWICE, once before the 70th week, and once AFTER the 70th week. At the first one the moon turns blood red, but at the second one, the moon cannot be seen, because no sunlight is reflected off of it.


You wrote:
The evidence shows the Sixth Seal begins the Wrath of God at Christ's Second Coming in the sky, ends Antichrist's control, and can't be at the beginning of the 70th week.

Let’s look at scripture:

In Revelation 19:20 we read:  20And the beast was taken…” It is plain then that HERE is where the reign of the man of sin, the Antichrist, ends. Please notice how far this is from chapter 6.  You are right that the “day of His wrath” begins here, but the timing here is the beginning of the Day of the Lord, which we read in many places is a day of wrath.