Hi
Marilyn,
My response to your
response to my response! 
My original post is in
black, your response is in red, and my response to that is
in blue.
My original post is in
black, your response is in red, and my response to that is
in blue.From: Marilyn Agee
Hi:
> > Respectfully,
the bible disagrees with you.
I don’t think so.
> > Revelations
4:1...........After
this I looked, and behold, a door was opened in
heaven: and the first voice which I
heard was as it were of a trumpet talking
with me; which said, Come up
hither, and I will shew thee things
which must be hereafter.
> > Respectfully,
this is a voice that sounds like a trumpet to
John that is talking to him. It is telling him
to come up here and I will show you things that
must be hereafter..........
> > Marilyn, this
is obviously an angel that is to show John
things to come later on.......thus, the word hereafter
is used. John was given the gift of going into
heaven in the spirit and was shown the throne of
God. The entire chapter 4 of Revelations is a
detailed viewing of the throne of God. There is
NO rapture mentioned in this chapter.
This is no ordinary
angel. It is God, the Angel of the Lord. Rev 1:1
says, “The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God
gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things
which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and
signified it by HIS ANGEL unto his servant
John”.
The Angel of the
Lord was the preincarnate Son of God. Joh_1:18 says,
“No man hath seen God (i.e., the Father) at any
time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom
of the Father, he hath declared him.”
Pro_30:4 says, “Who hath
ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath
gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the
waters in a garment? who hath established all the
ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his
son's name, if thou canst tell?”
God’s son’s name is Yeshua, Jesus.
This is the angel of the Lord
that appeared to Moses. Exo_3:2,4 says, “And the
angel of the LORD appeared unto him (Moses) in
a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he
looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and
the bush was not consumed....4 And when the LORD saw
that he turned aside to see, God called unto him
out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses,
Moses.”
If there was no
Rapture, why are the redeemed saints out of every
kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation present
around the throne of God?
Where in chapter 5
of Revelations, does it say that the redeemed saints
out of every kindred, tongue, and people, and
nation, are present around the throne of God? It
does not. I think you have mistaken what it says in
verse 11.....
Revelations
5: 11......And I beheld, and I heard
the voice of many angels round
about the throne and the beasts and the elders:
and the number of them (many angels) was ten
thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of
thousands;
Look at Rev 5:9,10
again. It says, “And they (the redeemed saints) sung
a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the
book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast
slain, and hast redeemed us (the wise-virgin saints)
to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and
tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us
unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign
on (epi, on or over) the earth.”
You cannot imply
that "they" are anything other than the 24 elders
and the 4 beasts that are singing a new song or that
"us" is anyone other than the 24 elders and the 4
beasts. You have to take it in context of the
surrounding literature. In Revelations 5: 9, the
elders and beasts are singing a new song. This
is evident by the previous verse 8. Notice that
they all have vials full of odours, which are the prayers
of saints. These prayers are not doing the singing,
the beasts and the elders are, but the
saints are included as being redeemed to
God where it says "us", they are included out
of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and
nation.
Psa 149:5-9 says,
“Let the saints be joyful in glory: let them
sing aloud upon their beds. 6 Let the high
praises of God be in their mouth, and a twoedged
sword in their hand; 7 To execute vengeance upon the
heathen, and punishments upon the people; 8 To bind
their kings with chains, and their nobles with
fetters of iron; 9 To execute upon them the judgment
written: this honour have all his saints. Praise ye
the LORD.”
The last book in the Bible is
“The Revelation of Jesus Christ”. It is written
as if the First-Trump Rapture is near, maybe 10
days future. Rev 2:10,11 says, “Fear none
of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold,
the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that
ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten
days: be thou faithful unto death, and I
will give thee a crown of life. 11 He that hath an
ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the
churches”.
The First-Trump Rapture is “at
hand” in the first and last chapters. Rev 1:3
says, “Blessed is he that readeth, and
they that hear the words of this prophecy, and
keep those things which are written therein: for
the time is at hand.” Rev 22:10 says, “Seal not
the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the
time is at hand.”
The Revelation of
Jesus Christ is organized according to Rev 1:19. It
says, “Write the things which thou hast seen (i.e.,
the things before the First-Trump Rapture), and the
things which are (at the time of the First-Trump
Rapture), and the things which shall be hereafter”
(after the First-Trump Rapture). The Last-Trump
Rapture is seen later, on the day of God’s Wrath
(Rev 6:17, 7:14).
> >
Notice here that the elders had vials which were
full of the prayers of saints. The singing
in verse 9 is coming from the 4 beasts and the
four and twenty elders. Now continue verse
9...
> > 9...........And they
sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take
the book, and to open the seals thereof: for
thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God
by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue,
and people, and nation
The pronouns “they” and “us” in verse 9
refer back to the previous noun, “saints” (the last
word in 5:8, the chapter and verse divisions were
not in the original), and these saints come out of
every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation.
The
pronoun "they" is referring back to the four
beasts and four and twenty elders of verse
8. The beasts and the elders are the subject
matter of verse 8, and the pronoun "us" is
referring back to the noun "prayers". "Of
saints" tells who the prayers are from, an adjective.
There are many more in that group than 28
(24 elders and 4 beasts). “There are 196 countries in the world
today.” (www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0932875.html)
Yes, there are! But they
are two "distinct groups"! KINGS and PRIESTS!
or (Firstfruits and Saints) As stated in:
Revelations
5: 10......And hast made us unto our
God kings and priests: and we shall reign
on the earth.
Referring to
the time of the First-Trump Rapture, Rev 3:16 says
to the lukewarm Laodiceans, “So then because thou
art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will
spue thee out of my mouth.” They get spewed out of
the Body of Christ at the time of the First-Trump
Rapture, but will be caught up in the Last-Trump
Rapture on the Day of God’s Wrath.
Those
wise-virgin Philadelphians will not be spewed out
of his mouth at the time of the First-Trump
Rapture. In
his Monologue to the seven churches, Jesus said
to the Philadelphians, “I know thy works:
behold, I have set before thee an open door,
and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little
strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not
denied my name.” (Rev 3:8).
John is one of
the 24 elders, the 12 patriarchs and 12 apostles
of Israel. Rev 4:4 says, “And round about the
throne were four and twenty seats (lit., thrones):
and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders
sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on
their heads crowns of gold.” John was seated on
his throne with the 12 patriarchs and the other 11
apostles that were just caught up in the
First-Trump Rapture.
THE PRINCES
(12 PATRIARCHS AND 12 APOSTLES) SHALL GATHER
THEMSELVES TO THEE AT THE FIRST TRUMPET CALL
Num 10:1-4
says, “And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 2
Make thee TWO TRUMPETS of silver; of a whole piece
shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them
for the calling of the assembly, and for
the journeying of the camps. 3 And when they shall
blow with them (i.e., BOTH), all the assembly
shall assemble themselves to thee at the door of
the tabernacle of the congregation. 4 And if they
blow but with ONE TRUMPET, then the princes (i.e.,
12 patriarchs and 12 apostles of Israel), which
are heads of the thousands of Israel, shall gather
themselves unto thee”.
THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY AND CHURCH OF THE
FIRSTBORN IN HEAVEN
Heb 12:22-24
says, “But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto
the city of the living God, the heavenly
Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of
angels, 23 To the general assembly and church
of the firstborn, which are written in
heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the
spirits of just men made perfect, 24 And to Jesus
the mediator of the new covenant”.
REV.
4
> > Marilyn,
this is obviously an angel that is to show
John things to come later on.......thus, the
word hereafter is used. John was
given the gift of going into heaven in the
spirit and was shown the throne of God. The
entire chapter 4 of Revelations is a
detailed viewing of the throne of God. There
is NO rapture mentioned in this chapter.
“COME
UP HITHER” IS THE FIRST-TRUMP RAPTURE
Rev 4:1-4 says, “After
this I looked, and, behold, a door (set before
the Philadelphians in Rev 3:8) was opened in
heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as
it were of a trumpet talking with me; which
said, COME UP HITHER, and I will shew thee
things which must be hereafter (after the
First-Trump Rapture, Rev 1;19). 2 And
immediately I was (lit., became) in the spirit:
and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one
(Jesus, who is both Father and Son, John 10:30)
sat on the throne. 3 And he that sat was to look
upon like a jasper (first stone in the
breastplate) and a sardine stone (last stone in
the breastplate, i.e., Jesus is both the first
and the last, Isa 44:6, Rev 22:13): and there
was a rainbow (i.e., Saturn’s rings, Eze 1:28)
round about the throne (Eze 1:26), in sight like
unto an emerald (Judah’s stone in the
breastplate, i.e., Jesus is the Lion of the
Tribe of Judah). 4 And round about the throne
were four and twenty seats (thrones): and upon
the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting,
clothed in white raiment (i.e., given them at
the First-Trump Rapture); and they had on their
heads crowns of gold” (i.e., also given at the
First-Trump Rapture).
Come up hither, is not
referring to the rapture in this context, it is
merely a statement being said to John to get him
to come up here (in the spirit). The angel wants
to show John something very special, which is
the throne of God. Thats all!
In John_10:30, Jesus
said, “I and my Father are one.”
Isa 44:6 says, “Thus
saith the LORD (YHWH) the King of Israel, and
his redeemer the LORD (YHWH) of hosts; I am the
first (YHWH, King of Israel), and I am the last
(YHWH, of hosts, the redeemer); and beside me
there is no God.”
In Rev 22:13, Jesus said,
“I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the
end, the first and the last.”
God can be
in two places at once, but to make it easier for
mankind to grasp, in chapter 5, a symbolic lamb
representing Christ is given the little book,
the Title Deed of the Earth.
> > Marilyn, The
wheat harvest (RAPTURE) does not happen
until Revelations 14: 14 !
That is correct. There are
two Raptures, the barley harvest and the wheat
harvest. The 24 elders and Philadelphian saints are
caught up in the barley harvest (and there is a
summer barley harvest). The 144,000 Israelites and
other Tribulation saints are caught up in the wheat
harvest,probably on Tishri 1, 5776. The 144,000
Israelites are the only ones caught up in the
Last-Trump Rapture that are able to sing the NEW
SONG. They are out of one country, not every country
in the world as in Rev 5:9.
THE
FIRSTFRUITS ARE CAUGHT UP IN TWO RAPTURES, THE
FIRST-TRUMP RAPTURE AND THE LAST-TRUMP RAPTURE, ONE
BEFORE THE FALSE PROPHET DEFILES THE TEMPLE, ONE JUST
BEFORE THE WRATH OF GOD IS POURED OUT ON THE DAY OF
GOD’S WRATH
Marilyn,
the firstfruits are called firstfruits because
they are taken FIRST! Which means they are taken
in the BARLEY harvest, barley comes before
wheat. They are not split up. We are told who they
are in:
Revelations 14: 4........These
are they which were not defiled with women; for they
are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb
whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed
from among men, being the firstfruits unto
God and to the Lamb.
And........
Revelations 14: 1......And
I looked and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and
with him an hundred forty and four
thousand, having his Father's name
written in their foreheads.
During this reply to you
and JUST now, I think the Lord has revealed to me
who the 2 witnesses are! The very
first place that it mentions an ascension to heaven in
revelations is at 11: 12......And they heard a great
voice from heaven saying unto them, COME UP HITHER.
And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud;
and their enemies beheld them.
This
is talking about the 2 witnesses and
their dead bodies were left to lie in the
street of the great city. I think the 2 witnesses are
the Northern and the Southern kingdoms of ISRAEL.
Broken down into 12 tribes of 12,000 each. And scattered
throughout the world today. This would explain how they
were killed, in Revelations 11: 7 where the beast made
war against them and kills them. Then they are seen
again with the Lamb in Revelations 14:1 where they
appear on mount Sion with the Lamb! Obviously, they have
been resurrected! The first ones to be taken are
the dead in Christ! The firstfruits! The
144,000 that are killed by the beast. This is the first
ascension mentioned in revelations to occur, so it would
have to be them!
AT THE FIRST-TRUMP RAPTURE, ALL SAINTS SING THE
NEW SONG
Rev 4:1 says, “After this I
looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and
the first voice which I heard was as it were of a
trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither.”
Again,
this is not a rapture! Or a resurrection! A door was
meerly opened to John in the SPIRIT to allow him to go
through it to be able to see what he was shown, the
throne of GOD!
Rev 5:8-10 says, “And when he had
taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty
elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of
them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are
the prayers of saints. 9 And they (i.e., the saints,
including the 24 elders) sung a NEW SONG, saying, Thou art worthy to
take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou
wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out
of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10
And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we
shall reign on the earth.”
Again, this was covered earlier.
The saints did no singing. Saints is an adjective in
this sentence, not the noun!
AT THE
LAST-TRUMP RAPTURE, ONLY THE 144,000 ISRAELITES SING THE
NEW SONG
Again, the
144,000 are NOT taken last! They are the firstfruits as
proven in Revelations 14:4! Firstfruits are taken in the
BARLEY HARVEST!
Rev 14:1-5 says, “I looked, and,
lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an
hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's
name written in their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice
from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the
voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of
harpers harping with their harps: 3 And they (i.e., the
144,000) sung as it were a NEW SONG before the throne,
and before the four beasts, and the elders: and NO MAN
COULD LEARN THAT SONG BUT THE HUNDRED AND FORTY AND FOUR
THOUSAND, which were redeemed from the earth. 4 These
are they which were not defiled with women; for they are
virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb
whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among
men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5
And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are
without fault before the throne of God.”
This part
is biblical and correct!
Psa 149:5-9 says, “Let the saints
be joyful in glory: let them SING aloud upon their beds.
6 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a
twoedged sword in their hand; 7 To execute vengeance
upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people; 8 To
bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with
fetters of iron; 9 To execute upon them the judgment
written: this honour have ALL HIS SAINTS. Praise ye the
LORD.”
The Last-Trump Rapture is on the
Day of God’s Wrath (probably the Feast of Trumpets, Sept
14, 2015) (Rev. 6:17, 7:14).
The WHEAT HARVEST happens in:
Revelations 14:4........And
I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud
one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a
golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15.........And
another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud
voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle
and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the
harvest of the earth is ripe.
16.........And
he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the
earth; and the earth was reaped.
The LAST HARVEST
takes place in revelations 14:
Revelations 14:17..........And
another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven,
he also having a sharp sickle.
18..........And
another angel came out from the alter, which had power
over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the
sharp sickle, gather the clusters of the vine of the
earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
19..........And
the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and
gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the
great winepress of the wrath of God.
So, Marilyn, I respectfully
disagree, but that is only my understanding of the
matter. But I think it is biblical.
PS....God's wrath does not begin
until chapter 16, after the last gathering of the earth.
Chapter 15 tells about the tribulation saints that got
the victory over the beast. So, the last (rapture) does
not appear to happen at the same time as the wrath
of God. Chronologically, the gathering comes first, but
it does not say how much time there is until
God's wrath begins. Granted, it will be close.
YBIC
Mike P
Agape,
Marilyn
Agee
prophecycorner.theforeverfamily.com
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