Pastor JD does an in-depth study of the prophecy in Psalm 83, and why it may now be on the cusp of being fulfilled.Maranatha!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MMangcYnv4&list=UUkz3m787ygph7Uvjxzngl-g&index=2
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There is one item from the video I'd like to comment on:
Who are they? Well, again, these are the descendants of Hagar. Well, now, wait a minute: what’s the difference between the Hagarites and the Ishmaelites? Well, now think it through: Hagar went on to have more children after Ishmael, right? So because they came from Hagar does not make them Ishmaelites, because they ... were not descendants of Ishmael.So what does that all mean? Well, these are, again, Egyptians. These are Egyptians.
I emailed Pastor Farag several months ago about pegging the Hagarites as Egypt, and the reasons I disagree with this. He never responded. Since then, I haven't heard him include Egypt in the Psalm 83 group again until this week. It looks like he is trying to "reason" Egypt into the group. He has made a huge assumption that Hagar had more children. Even if they did, how do we know the father of these assumed children was from Egypt? Here is my argument against including Egypt in Psalm 83:
"Fair Use for Education and Discussion Purposes"
Ishmaelites and Hagrites:
The Ishmaelites, as a people, migrated to the area of eastern Jordan and into Saudi Arabia:
Genesis 25:17-18 - These were the years of the life of Ishmael: one hundred and thirty-seven years; and he breathed his last and died, and was gathered to his people. (They dwelt from Havilah as far as Shur, which is east of Egypt as you go toward Assyria.) He died in the presence of all his brethren.
The Ishmaelites disappeared from history after the time of David's reign. Most assume that they absorbed into the surrounding people, and represent many of the Arabs that live in Israel's neighboring countries.
The Hagrites were Ishmaelites who took the matron name:
In Gen 25:12-18 are recorded the descendants, "generations," of Ishmael, "whom Hagar the Egyptian Sarah's handmaid, bare unto Abraham." Two, and possibly three, of these tribes, Jetur, Naphish and Kedemah (25:15), appear to be identical with the 3 tribes whom the Reubenites and the other Israelite tribes East of the Jordan conquered and dispossessed (1 Ch 5). The correspondence of names in Gen and 1 Ch leaves little doubt that "Hagrite" is a generic term roughly synonymous with "Ishmaelite," designating the irregular and shifting line of desert tribes stretching along the East and South of Israel. Those "East of Gilead," "Jetur, Naphish and Nodah," were overcome by Reuben: "The Hagrites were delivered into their hand, and all that were with them. .... And they took away their cattle .... they dwelt in their stead until the captivity" (1 Ch 5:20-22).The Bible shows us that the Hagrites migrated east of Israel and lived in eastern Jordan (Gilead was in northwest Jordan):
1 Chronicles 5:10 - Now in the days of Saul they made war with the Hagrites, who fell by their hand; and they dwelt in their tents throughout the entire area east of Gilead.
Some believe that the Hagrites in Psalm 83 represent Egypt because Hagar was originally from Egypt. From the sources I could find, most believe that the Hagrites settled in Jordan and Arabia. The Bible supports this, as the passage above tells us the Hagrites migrated east of Israel:
I believe it is a stretch to say that the largely unknown Hagrites represent Egypt, as Egypt is otherwise a very prominent country throughout the Bible. Let me explain it in a different way:
Hagar had Ishmael through Abraham, and Sarah had Isaac through Abraham. For arguments sake, let's call the people of the future country of Israel the "Sarities." Sarah was a Syrian. Using the same argument about the Hagrites representing the Egyptians, we could argue that the "Sarities" would represent Syria in the future. Obviously, that just isn't the case. We understand that a new nation formed through the line of Sarah and Isaac. After the captivity in Egypt, these people settled in the land of Canaan and became Israel. All the future prophecies about Israel are about Israel ("Sarites"), not Syria.
The point here is that we need to look at where the Hagrites migrated and settled, not where they originated from. Both the Bible and history confirm that the Hagrites settled east of Israel.
Amy Van Gerpen