Hi John and Doves,

I am sort of new here (although I read the website in the past, I just started reading regularly 2-3 months ago).  I was not raised with a pre-trib belief (only post-trib and it wasn't hardly hardly ever discussed).  It has been only recently with my unresolved questions that I have been willing to seriously, carefully look at the pre-trib issue.

I have read some scriptures that over several years have continued to bother me (not knowing for sure what they meant).  Central to this have been the wedding feast parables of the New Testament, especially Matthew 25.  Both the wise and the foolish know that the betrothal/engagement is over, the coming of the Bridegroom and subsequent wedding are imminent, because they are assembled at the bride's house to go on the procession.  Then a cry/shout is made.  Both the foolish and the wise WAKE UP.
In my spirit I'm thinking that this could be not just many people on the internet saying it's imminent, but also an event which will truly let all Christians and peoples know that times have truly changed and the Lord is coming!  Could this be a large natural disaster maybe combined with economic collapse, even worldwide economic collapse? (something so severe that it's obvious that the old times aren't coming back).  I have run into too many people that express hope that the "markets will come back,"  "just waiting for things to pick up again."  Although there have been some ups since the housing crisis began in 2007-8, there have been mostly downs, and those who are spiritually astute will recognize that we are in a destruction cycle.  Could it also be a sign in the heavens?  Such as that Planet X (Wormwood) showing up visible to the naked eye on 12/21/12 or shortly after?  A combination of any of these that lets the foolish and wise know that the gig
is up?

The foolish virgins, either because they didn't think ahead or didn't think that it wouldn't go according to schedule (expectation), did not make extra preparation.  Instead, the Lord delayed and their oil lamps were empty when they went to light them.  The wise on the other hand, had extra oil (and thus they weren't frantic).  The foolish didn't want to miss out on the wedding so they begged of their wise virgin friends to share their oil with them.  Many people interpret oil to mean spirituality, testimony of God's truths, and the word of God.  However, the wise tell the foolish that they don't have enough to share, to go to those that buy and sell and get their own oil.  One day I did a scripture search to see what I would come up with for "buy and sell."  Buying and selling is associated with merchants.  One does not buy spiritual readiness from a store, but they do get physical items from a store.  Oil had multi purposes back then, for light and
food, and in this story, it is a physical need in order to light their way to the wedding ceremony.

So the most interesting scripture I found was, Revelation 13:17 about the mark of the beast -- how in order to buy or sell, one must have that mark; plus it will be under threat of death to refuse it.   A lesser version of the mark of the beast has been around for a long time in various degrees, but I assume that you all are aware around here that this time the beast's ability to control people is much much more sweeping now.  I am thinking that what happens in the parable (applied to modern times) is that the foolish (in order to get their needed supply) take the mark of the beast, and that's why the Lord rejects them at the door (I don't know you/you don't know me).  No prepared follower would take the mark, only the foolish who didn't prepare, weren't aware, and panicked making a stupid decision that they thought wouldn't be a big deal as long as they tried to show up.

Revelation 18: 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

I looking at Old Testament and New Testament symbology together, this scripture sounds like a wedding exodus.  This would be putting people mostly out of the long arm of the beast law that reigns in the big cities and smaller towns.

About 1-2 months ago I was still pondering an exodus, so I took a look at when people in the scriptures were warned to leave all of a sudden, and it was usually the night before, the day before, sometimes told to leave immediately, or given less than a 4 day notice.  I also looked at how much food/provisions they took with them -- it was what they could carry (and if it was with the help of animals), 1-2 months' of provisions.  (The Israelites who went to worship the Lord in the wilderness at Mt Sinai, ran out after a month and then the Lord provided for the rest, after all they could do.  Unfortunately, they were too afraid to meet the Lord himself, so  instead of getting Christ's law, they got the harsher carnal commandments.)  This time as a human race and as believers in Christ, hopefully we have learned to know Him well enough to be joined with him.

In surveying human history, God often allows enough suffering if we aren't quite sanctified enough to meet him.  This can include a period of seclusion by withdrawing into the wilderness like John the Baptist, Jesus, and other prophets did.

Revelation 12: 6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.   (1260 days)   
Assuming this applies to end times, this could mean the time period that the Bridegroom feeds the virgins who are attending the wedding-- through manna?

Jeremiah 3: 14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the Lord; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:  
(this could be referring to the conversion period of the times of the Gentiles, but it could also refer to the angels coming to get people at the end-- they will hand pick people and status quo of "being family" or being "part of the same congregation or church" may not save all per se.

Not trying to be faithless, but looking at things from a human and practical standpoint, what if the rapture doesn't happen when we expect it to?  Nor in the manner in which we expect?   Dreams and visions have a certain amount of symbolism to them.  I have looked at some of the archives of this group, and have seen how some people have been "certain" that Jesus was returning on such and such date/festival, only to be let down -- oh well, we keep waiting, maybe on a different festival or a different year.  I have looked at some scriptures which people say support pretrib (or midtrib/prewrath if you believe we are actually at about mid point-- I personally think this is the case but I could be wrong), and I agree that there are some hints and symbolism, but the actual scriptures IMO are not direct enough to make it 100% certain that He is coming soon enough to remove people from the earth before the Beast gets into full program--it may be an exodus to
protected places which removes the faithful from the wicked 
(Isaiah 26:  20 ¶Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.)

In looking at the general direction of things though, I do really believe that the wheat/sheep are going to be separated from the tares/goats soon -- this process has already started on a spiritual/emotional level -- many people are having serious relationship issues with friends or family members who just don't see things the same way.

The procession of the bride and virgins:  It was late late last night when I was looking for information; it did find one website on ancient customs that said that the bride provided food (at least for the procession if it was a lengthy trip).  The Father of the groom provided food and drink at the wedding feast.  I am proposing, what would it hurt if someone prepared a get-out-of-town bag with 3-7 days of food, water, and a few other items?  Who knows if that procession would be on foot or in a car?  If you had a car, you could take maybe several weeks worth of food, but only a few day's worth of water (portable water bottle purifier/ Costco sells Brita water purifier bottles -- 3 for about $15.00).  What if an angel came to your door, and said, It's time to leave, go to such and such place-- and you had no plans in place, no food, water ready to go, a gas tank almost on empty, and banks had just closed, and the stores were being quickly emptied and you
could only use cash?  What if then a few days later the banks reopen with new rules and you have to take the mark?  Would this put a "foolish" virgin in a bind when they realize it's time to get out of dodge and they don't have what they need?  The neighbor will most likely say, Sorry, I only have enough for myself -- go get your own.   Yikes!

I have been praying to know for sure if there are two raptures or departures of some kind -- asking for a dream or vision, but I haven't gotten the answer other than my little thoughts and feelings here and there of concern.  Is it not prudent to be prepared, and if you don't need it then, someone else "left behind" will?  This could even be another family member who you love!  I personally do not believe that every person initially "left behind" would be foolish (unspiritual)  some people do want to help others -- family they love.   Some would rather pass away soon in a natural disaster or brief illness than go through certain things.  I believe that God has multiple plans in place and the bottom line is, He will come when He is ready and when Satan cannot thwart his plans (thus I believe that there might be an element of surprise even to the faithful-- God keeps his secrets from his enemies).  

I have put together a list of food items (it comes to about $16 per person although with some items, it you are preparing for less than 4 people, sometimes less than 10 people, you will have extra and thus will pay more).  If there's a possibility that you would be here for Christmas, these could make great practical gifts.

A few of these items work best with hot water.  This may or may not be available if you have to leave your home (or if an angel says they will come get you in a couple of days and stores are closed):

This is for about 3 days (not dining either, just what you need to snack get by)
1-apple cider packet 
1-hot cocoa packet 
1 bottled water (along with at least two 2-liter soda bottles, cleaned and filled with tap water)
2 Electrolyte packets (I used the E-Mergen-C brand but you could use Gatorade powder singles enough to make 2 liters -- you can add the powder as needed as you refill the small water bottle)
1- Carnation Breakfast packet (you will need to get some powdered milk too and put it in a baggie
1- Clif protein bar
1-Ocean Spray natural fruit snack
1-Snack pudding
2- Slim Jim jerky sticks
1- bag of 99 cent sunflower seeds (or other nuts of choice)
1- Bumblebee tuna salad (grocery stores or dollar stores sometimes have this)
1-Lipton cup of soup packet 
1+ - Vienna sausage can
1- Juicy Juice
1- 16oz V-8 juice
1- Mixed fruit cup in juice
1- small raisin box
1- packet of pop tarts
1- applesauce cup
1- Tiger protein bar
1- Yogurt granola/fruit bar
3- fruit strips of fruit or fruit/vegetable leather
1- package of Ramen (you can eat this dry if you have to, like a cracker)
3 +- peanut butter or cheese cracker packages
1- ziplock sandwich bag with 9 folded napkins, and one set of plastic utensils  (metal would be better)

I am going to pack these in a mylar bag with oxygen absorber.  I got these inexpensively at the LDS food cannery.  Perhaps in your town you have a preparedness or outdoor store that would have them; or you may have to order online.   Or you can opt for a clean shoes box and tape it up really good (shelf life won't be as good).  Stick it in a backpack.

I would also include things like, a jacket/ hat/ sturdy shoes/ gloves you can grab, a travel sized toiletry kit, sleeping bag and pillow, or mylar blanket, a small first aid kit with painkiller, a change of underwear or socks or other clothes, menstrual supplies if needed, any important papers you think you might want, cash, pocket scriptures, bug spray, sunscreen, pocket knife, small scissors.  A roll of toilet paper in a plastic bag, and a few plastic bags for garbage or dirty clothes.  Also a flashlight.
My list doesn't include everything--  Just think carefully of practical items you would need for a few days.

The practical side of me decided this was a good idea.  I will probably prepare more but this was just to get started.

Happy Chanukah!

Ruby