Mathman (12 Dec 2011)
"Amy, we didn't "choose" 2015, 2015 chose us"

Hi Amy,

Thanks for your excellent post outlining why it is your opinion that 2015 is not a viable year for the return of Jesus Christ.  While I really want to agree with what you have written, it would violate a primary mathematical fact.  That mathematical fact being that, by all mathematical and statistical odds, it appears with almost 100% certainty (nothing can be 100% unless God Himself wrote it specifically) that we didn't "choose" 2015, but 2015 chose us.  Allow me to illustrate:

-  June 7, 1967 = 6-7-67 (the perfect blend of 6's & 7's) represents God's perfect help (7's) for the Jews (6's) to defeat the Satanic horde that tried to wipe them out in the Six-Day War.  Indeed, this is the very day that God delivered Jerusalem into His people's hands.

-  June 7, 1967 + 49 years x 360 day years = EXACTLY Day of Atonement 2015

-  June 8, 1967 + 7 weeks x 2520 days = EXACTLY Day of Atonement 2015 (as you know, Jewish days start the evening before)

-  Aug 29, 1897 = The First Zionist Congress was held in Switzerland from August 29 to August 31, 1897, declaring Israel as the future home of the Jews

-  Aug 29, 1897 + 120 years x 360 years = EXACTLY December 7, 2015 = EXACTLY Hanukkah 2015 (my other posts have explained in detail why this makes Scriptural sense), the logical day for the anointing of Jesus, the last of six steps outlined in Daniel 9

-  Hanukkah 2015 on December 7, 2015 - 1335 days of Daniel 12 + 1260 days of the Great Tribulation starting April 11, 2012 = EXACTLY Day of Atonement, September 23, 2015

Amy, the chances of these things lining up so perfectly is well over a billion to 1!!  Does this REALLY seem like mere random chance to you?  If so, please outline an alternative date in 2018 or beyond for Christ's return (allowing for a seven year Tribulation Period so many are stuck on) that makes even 1 billionth as much sense as this.

That being said, you did make an excellent outline of why you PERSONALLY do not believe the 2008 to 2015 timeline makes sense to you.  However, once I reviewed these in detail, IMO none of your "proofs" were "deal breakers", just your interpretations and perceptions that they were so.  As such, perhaps instead you should take a look at what you wrote to determine how it COULD fit into the above timeline.  I am convinced that you will find that each of your points can and do easily fit in.

As such, if you can't find something SOLID to discount what we are writing (IMO, your statement that it "sounds like a peace treaty to me" is just not conclusive), you may possibly be of better service to the Lord to instead see why it could fit in.  Again, I am not being condescending - this is just my personal opinion (which we are BOTH allowed to express).

You also indicated that we are using "supernatural" confirmations.  I COMPLETELY agree with you on this one.  Indeed, if you classify perfectly aligned Israel related dates to the Day of Atonement 2015 being "supernatural" (as in God controlled), I COMPLETELY agree with you.

You also indicated that we are using "private interpretation and spiritualizing" instead of using solid Biblical doctrine.  Amy, NOTHING can be further from the truth.  I feel that this is both a serious and baseless accusation.  Indeed, it was this accusation that spurred me to write this rebuttal.  Amy, honestly, all you need is a history book and a calendar and the events line up ALL on their own.  Indeed, my 13 year old son was able to do this without any assistance from me.

To reiterate, there is no manipulation, no spiritualizing, no private interpretation involved.  I would never violate the Lord's trust in me by doing anything but solid Bible based proofs.  In other words, these are just cold, hard mathematical facts, plain and simple.  IMO, you don't even have to be mathematically proficient to know that these things all line up on their own without "private interpretation and spiritualizing!!

The bottom line is, we (as in Ron Reese, BG Ellis, Gerry Almond and and a growing number of others including me) didn't choose or force 2015 to be an incredibly strong candidate for being the year of Christ's return.  Instead, it appears mathematically certain 2015 chose us.  Here is an analogy to help illustrate:

In my business, I deal with billions and billions of dollars of assets.  We often have to do mega-projects.  Planning for these projects are extremely complicated.  However, it always involves the exact same process.  What is the finished product for success and when do we need or want it completed by?  Once defined, we work backwards and fill in the dates that we want something done by, each being sign posts pointing towards the finished product.  This process continues until we get back to the beginning.  In other words, once the planning is complete, we then know the beginning from the end.  Does this sound familiar?

Now something even more obvious.  Compared to God's intelligence, I am a complete and utter moron.  Indeed, God invented organization.  Since He created all, would He not therefore follow the same process He invented to ensure our reconciliation is following a proper and logical timeline?  In other words, should we not EXPECT that God would ALSO have sign posts pointing towards the finished product (mans reconciliation with God)?  INDEED, it certainly appears with close to 100% certainty that He has (again, nothing that is not SPECIFICALLY put in the Bible can be classified as 100% - I would never put words in God's mouth).

Again, to reiterate, the chances of these dates pointing towards the Day of Atonement 2015 being simply random is ASTRONOMICAL.  So why fight it?

Again, in no way am I being condescending towards you, Amy!!  I also fought "the math" for many months.  Finally, I was woken up for so many mornings in a row at around 5 am and told to rethink the 7 year Post Rapture period being a "fact" that I simply stopped wrestling with Him.  I know from the Bible if I kept up my fight, something would soon be dislocated.

Instead, I finally obeyed and it turns out that nothing we have said so far with this alternative timeline contradicts Scripture (God forbid).  Therefore, this "theory" is not a flight of fancy or simply a desire on our part to come up with something unique.  Indeed, to borrow another writer's excellent analogy with Dragnet - "Just the facts, madam, just the facts".

God bless you, Amy.  I LOVE your writings and teachings.  However, mathematical and statistical logic dictate that I am simply going to have to agree to disagree with you on 2015.

YbiC, MathMan