Dear
Eaglet,
I thought that I would take a stab at addressing some of
the points that you made in your post “A New and Different
View on Revelation Timeline”: http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/aug2015/eaglet82.htm
. I can see that you took a lot of effort in
developing a new timeline and I do encourage “thinking
outside of the box.” However, my main concern is
that your timeline jumbles up the events of the book of
Revelation. For example, you’ve got the Two
Witnesses causing the Trumpet Judgments, even though they
are not introduced until after the sixth trumpet.
You’ve got the seventh trumpet of Revelation 11 being the
Great White Throne Judgment of Revelation 20. And
you’ve got the seven bowl judgments preceding the seven
trumpets, even though Scripture orders them the other way
around.
No offense, but I believe that everything in the book of
Revelation is presented in the order that God
intended. And I would be extremely cautious before
teaching a timeline that changes any of that:
“For
I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the
prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these
things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are
written in this book: And if any man shall take away from
the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take
away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy
city, and from the things which are written in
this book.” Revelation
22:18-19.
From what I can determine, you are trying to make the book
of Revelation dovetail with the theory that Jesus Christ
already fulfilled the first 3 ½ years of Daniel
9:27. The “fulfilled” 3 ½ year theory has been
around for a long time, and I don’t see any point in
re-hashing “for or against” arguments that you can easily
find on the internet. But it is a bit extreme for
you to say that the “7 years of tribulation view is being
promoted by Satan” when valid arguments can be made on
both sides.
For example, you say that “Jer. 30: 3-7 does not say that
the time of Jacob’s trouble is 7 years.” And you are
correct; it is not expressly stated in that passage.
However, Jacob is a type for the nation of Israel.
In fact, his name was changed to “Israel” in Genesis
32:28. So, there may be a pattern in the life of
Jacob that can give us insight on the “time of Jacob’s
trouble” with regard to the nation of Israel.
So, did Israel the man have a time of trouble? Yes,
he lived during a SEVEN YEAR time of trouble. There
was a 7 year famine during the time his son Joseph was a
ruler in Egypt. (And note that Joseph has been seen
to be a type for Jesus Christ.) Israel suffered
during the first half of the famine, until his sons (the
progenitors of the tribes of Israel) finally recognized
Joseph to be their brother (who they thought was dead) and
acknowledged him as their ruler. (See Genesis
45:6-7.) Then they brought Israel to Joseph, who
took his family in and protected them for the rest of the
seven year period. (Please read Genesis 41 through
47 for the entire narrative.)
So, is this a prophetic pattern? I think so: Israel
the nation will have to go through the Tribulation – a
seven year period of time which is confirmed by
the pattern. It will suffer through the first half
(See Revelation 11:1-6), however – during which time – the
144,000 representatives from the 12 Tribes of Israel will
accept Jesus Christ as their living Lord and lead the rest
of Israel to Jesus. See Revelation 7:1-8 and
Revelation 14:1-5. At that point, the nation of
Israel will be protected for the remainder of the 3 ½
years of the Tribulation. See Revelation 12:1-17.
So, we have a biblical pattern which supports a seven year
Time of Jacob’s Trouble – that’s hardly Satanic.
Plainly
Stated
Okay, so let’s get down to the nitty-gritty. You
contend that the Millennium is represented by the “Half
Hour Silence in Heaven” found in Revelation 8:1. You
use 1 John 2:18 as your support. If I understand
your theory correctly, John states that we are already in
the “last hour.” Since it has been approximately
2000 years, one hour equals 2000 years and ½ hour equals
1000 years. You then insert that 1000 years into
Revelation 8:1 and call it the Millennium.
You ask: “So is it safe to assume that the LAST HOUR that
he is telling us is 2,000 years in duration assuming that
the antichrist will appear in our time? Does HALF AN
Hour could mean then as 1,000 years? If so, then it
could probably mean that the HALF AN HOUR silence in
Heaven is the Millennium. What do you think?”
Well, I think that is a pretty big assumption that ignores
the fact that the book of Revelation clearly puts the
Millennium in chapter 20 – after ALL of the preceding
events of the Tribulation (including the half hour of
silence).
I am sorry, but when something is that plainly stated in
Scripture, I don’t see how it can be open to
interpretation. Either God means what He says or He
does not.
1000
Years
The Bible has already provided us with the conversion key
for what equals 1000 years. It is one day:
“But,
beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is
with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as
one day.” 2
Peter 3:8.
“For
a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday
when it is past, and as a watch in the
night.” Psalm
90:4.
So you cannot arbitrarily make a half an hour equal 1000
years – in direct contradiction to Scripture.
One
Half Hour
Please note that the Greek word for “hour” in 1 John 2:18
(i.e. “hora”) is not the same word used in Revelation 8:1
(i.e. “hemiorion”). (You can check this for yourself
at the Blue Letter Bible website.) So, I really
don’t think that you can argue that it “is obvious that
John holds the same understanding of what hour was to him
both for the above scriptures that he revealed.”
Since he did not use the same word for “hour” it makes
more sense to assume that he did not hold the same meaning
for hour in Revelation 8:1 or 1 John 2:18. In fact,
the word used in Revelation 8:1 is the only time that it
is used in Scripture. Whereas the King James Version
of 1 John 2:18 does not even translate “hora”
as “hour.” Rather, it translates the phrase
“eschatos hora” as “the last time.” In fact, “hora”
can be and has been translated “hour,” “time,” and
“season” in the Bible.
Did it ever occur to you that a half an hour might mean
just that – a half an hour? When the Two Witnesses
are lying dead for 3 ½ days, nobody questions that it is a
literal 3 ½ days.
The
Rapture is not the Wedding
The last part of your post is a bit confusing. I am
not entirely sure what point you were trying to make; so
please forgive me if I misrepresent your position.
It is my understanding that you begin the “great
tribulation” at the time of the Sixth Seal, and “the
Resurrection of the Dead in Christ and the Rapture of the
Alive in Christ in between the Sixth Bowl and the Seventh
Bowl.” You believe that a conversation that John has
with one of the seven angels who had one of the seven
bowls is proof that the Rapture is timed during the bowl
judgments and not before. You cite Revelation 21:9,
in which that angel tells John that he will show him “the
bride, the wife of the Lamb,” as your support –
emphasizing that the bride is already married.
You also state: “(I hope you don’t have another bride in
mind, like what pretribbers did to Matthew 24:29,30,
making it the second rapture/resurrection, which they say
is still an integral part of the first resurrection of
Rev. 20. Jesus will get His Bride one time only, not
several times.)”
So first, are you implying that just because John had a
conversation with a bowl judgment angel in Revelation 21,
the Rapture occurred between the 6th and 7th Bowl
Judgments of Revelation 16:12-17? I do not see how
the one thing must make the other thing true. It
just looks like you are twisting around the order of
events, which are plainly set forth in Scripture, to
support your new timeline.
No offense, but the Bible plainly states the timing of the
Wedding of the Lamb. It occurs in Revelation 19 –
after the Tribulation and at the time when Jesus Christ
returns to earth.
I recognized that you used the New International Version
in your post, so I am going to give you the following
verses in the NIV in order for you to understand this
point as clearly as possible:
“‘Hallelujah!
For our Lord God Almighty reigns, Let us rejoice and be
glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the
Lamb has come, and his bride has made
herself ready. Fine linen, bright and clean, was
given her to wear.’ (Fine linen stands for the
righteous acts of the saints.) Then the angel said
to me, ‘Write: Blessed are those who are
invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!’
And he added, ‘These are the true words of God.’”
Revelation 19:6-9.
So the Wedding and the Wedding Feast occur after
the Tribulation. It is expressly stated as such in
the Bible. And I don’t know how God could have made
it any clearer.
So when the bowl judgment angel talks to John about the
bride being a wife in the following chapter, it is not
some secret clue to the timing of the Rapture. But
it is a confirmation that the conversation is taking place
after the wedding in Chapter 19 – and not sometime between
the 6th and 7th Bowl Judgments of Revelation 16:12-17.
Now, about your accusation that pretribbers believe in two
brides and/or two raptures: that is not the mainstream
pretribulation position – which is one Bride and one
Rapture. However, I think that you and others are
confusing the Rapture of the Church with other
resurrection events.
The Rapture is merely a name for the resurrection event of
the Church. It is referenced in 1 Corinthians
15:51-58 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. But it is not
the only resurrection event mentioned in the Bible:
Along
with Christ, some Old Testament Saints have already been
resurrected. See Matthew 27:52-53;
The
Two Witnesses are going to be resurrected. See
Revelation 11:11-12;
The
144,000 Jews who were sealed in Revelation 7:1-8 are
arguably resurrected because they appear in heaven in
Revelation 14:1-5;
The
righteous dead are resurrected in Revelation 20:4-6, prior
to the Millennium;
And
there is a final resurrection of everybody else at the end
of the Millennium. See Revelation 20:11-15.
I think that some people have simply gotten the Rapture of
the Church or its timing confused with these other
resurrection events. But I do not see the point in
belittling people who hold different viewpoints on the
timing of the Rapture or those who deny it
altogether. Our salvation is not tied to the correct
view on when we are going to be resurrected.
So if a “between the 6th and 7th Bowl Judgments”
resurrection floats your boat, that is your
prerogative. I only decided to respond to your post
because you asked John Tng: “I am just hoping that you
would help me debunk my view and convince me that I am
wrong.” So I did not think that you would mind my
input, assuming your request was sincere.
The book of Revelation is the only book of the Bible that
has a warning attached to it. And it always concerns
me when people disregard that warning. Revelation is
in the exact order that God intended. He does not
need us to reorganize it for Him. Please be mindful
of that – for if you mess with the text, you are actually
changing the Word of God. And that is a pretty big
deal.
Straight
Forward
I love Bible prophecy, and I encourage you to delve into
it with an open mind. However, I would just caution
you to be careful when formulating theories that are a bit
convoluted. It may mean that you are trying too hard
to make things fit into your own way of thinking – and not
the Lord’s.
My experience with Scripture is that it is straight
forward. God is not trying to confuse us. “For
God is not the author of confusion, but of peace,
as in all churches of the saints.” 1
Corinthians 14:33.
He wants us to understand what He is saying to us.
Because He is God, however, there are likely deeper
meanings or multiple applications to be found in passages
of Scripture. But even those “hidden things” are
straight forward and consistent with the plain text.
God bless you in your studies.
– Lisa Taylor