From: Marilyn
Agee
Hi:
I appreciate your
answer.
I was raised in the Methodist
Church, and my parents stuck with it all their lives, but not me.
When we moved from Terre Haute, IN,
to Kingsport, TN, Dad just happened to have gone to college with the Principal
of my High School, who just happened to go to the Baptist Church, on the Church
Circle, so we went to the First Baptist Church for a year. Then, so my youngest
brother would also be baptized like the rest of us, in the Methodist Church, we
all moved across the street to the Methodist Church.
It was a lucky break for me. I got
to see the difference. When I got engaged to Ed, and the First Baptist Church
just happened to be his church. I moved back. In that church, we opened our
Bibles and read them. The teaching was Biblical. At the Methodist Church, we
were just preached to. Since Jesus was immersed when he was baptized, I wanted
to be immersed. I had to wait until we were married and Ed was going to college
at UT, but I was baptized again and we joined a Baptist Church.
We didn’t always go to a Baptist
Church though. As we moved around, we went to Rolling Hills Covenant when Chuck
Swindoll was pastor, and to another non-denominational church with a good
pastor. In between, we went to several Baptist Churches, but mainly Bethany
Baptist in Whittier, which we joined. I went to hear R.B. Thieme, and borrowed
his tapes from Berachah Church too.
When I exhausted the library at
Bethany Baptist, I got my library card from BIOLA. I read a big stack of books
every week for 7 years, and still could not find answers to my most pressing
questions. I opened my Bible, put my hands on it and practically in tears said,
“Lord, you are going to have to show me.” I started looking up every word in
Eze. 1 in Strong’s Concordance. It finally came clear to me what his visions in
chapter 1 and 10 meant, and therefore what Gen. 3:24 meant. Ever since, this has
been my main way of studying the Bible.
I don’t think I ever read Dr. Randall Price’s book. I was so into
Pre-Trib that I didn’t look into Mid-Trib or Post-Trib much. I have just lately
come to the Mid-Trib position. It makes sense to me for us to go up when Satan
comes down.
As for two Raptures, aside from I Thess
4:13-18 and I Cor 15:51-54, I noticed that there are two groups in Heaven at
different times.
Rev 5:8-10 says, “And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four
and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and
golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. 9 And they
(i.e., the saints) sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book,
and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God
by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and
nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and
we shall reign on the earth.”
I assumed they were caught up Pre-Trib.
In Rev. 7:9-14, it says, “After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude,
which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and
tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes,
and palms in their hands; 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying,
Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. 11
And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the
four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and
honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. 13
And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed
in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou
knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of
great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them
white in the blood of the Lamb.”
These came out of great tribulation. That’s the last half of the
Tribulation. Both groups do not get to Heaven at the same time. These get out by
the skin of their teeth because Rev. 6:17 says, “For the great day of his wrath
is come.”
I assume that the Philadelphian church, for whom Jesus has no words of
condemnation, get out the first time (I Thess. 4:13-18), and the Laodicean
Church gets out the last time (I Cor. 15:51-54). World conditions are so bad it
seems like we are in the first half of the Tribulation now.
The important thing is to get to Heaven, whenever it is. I can hardly wait.
My husband died on Dec. 27, 2011. On the following April 2, he came to visit me
in his celestial body. He came striding in at a good clip with an ear to ear
grin on his face. I asked him, “Are you 30 or 33?” He said, 33. (He was 87 when
he died.) I asked him if we could be together forever. He said, “Yes.” I asked
if he had gotten with his family and mine. He said, “Yes.” I asked if he had a
piano. He said, “Yes,” and walked through the wall.
I am happy with how my life is turning out. I said, “Yes” to Jesus, and
“Yes” to Ed when he asked me to marry him. Now I will get to be with them both
forever. I can’t think of anything better. It is worth the wait. I am hoping the
Rapture will be this next Feast of Trumpets. Jesus was conceived on Kislev 24
(Hag. 2:18,19). The seed was in the barn. He was born on the Feast of Trumpets.
We are the Body of Christ, so we might be born into a new world on the Feast of
Trumpets.
Can you think of other reasons it might be on Trumpets, other than it is
the first trump of God?
Agape,
Marilyn Agee
prophecycorner.theforeverfamily.com
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Pastor Bob (24 Aug 2014)
"Reply: Marilyn
Agee"
Good Morning
Marilyn:
I have studied your premise of Rev. 2:22 explaining both a
Mid-Trib and Post-Trib rapture and over the years as a possibility. In
all respect to your view, I have not been able to reconcile any of the
different positions other than a Pre-Tribulation Rapture.
Dr.
Randall Price published a book about ten years ago, the title slips my memory
at the moment, but he organized and charted all the various views on the
Rapture. In his charting of each view, he identified the plus and minus
points of each view.
Dr. Price's concluding remarks were that
the Pre-Tribulation Rapture had the fewest issues that could not be reconciled
with the context of the prophetic message.
I don't have a copy
of the book in my library since giving it away when I retired several years
ago. I remember enough of his study to note that all the differing views
were analyzed objectively, weighing all the points, passages, etc. The
title of the book just came to my mind as I was typing this. The title
is 'Charts of Bible Prophecy' and Dr. Price co-authored the book.
If my memory is good, I believe it was a man by the name of Wayne
House.
The book that I am referring to was as I recall, the most
thorough of anything available that did a comparison and contrast
presentations by differing views of the best minds of each end time scenario
held to by scholars. Each of the views had irreconcilable or unresolved
questions. The Pre-Trib Rapture had the fewest, like 2 or 3 based upon
what might have been viewed as conflicting passages.
As you know
from reading my posts, I am a dispensationalist in my theology today.
The first half, about 28 years of my ministry I was actually nothing, by that
I mean that I didn't have a position on end times because of being educated in
"Covenant/Reform" Presbyterian and Methodist seminaries. Prophecy is
just not taught, its not a required study. The book that woke me up was
a book by Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum, entitled 'Israelogy: The Missing Link in
Systematic Theology'. When I purchased this book, I purchased his
other book 'Footsteps of the Messiah', which has since been revised and
updated. At the time I purchased Dr. Fruchtenbaum's books I was sitting
on the fence so to speak. These two books turned my life upside down,
restructured my belief regarding prophecy, and resulted in my leaving the
United Methodist Church, and sacrificing a nice retirement package. I
spent about a year weighing the Biblical Truth against Dr. Fruchtenbaum's work
on the subject, before I jumped ship to my new dispensational view. Dr.
Fruchtenbaum's books were like getting a new pair of glasses where the focus
suddenly became clear, sharp and crisp. Many of fellow pastors took the
Pan-Tribulation view, not wanting to jeopardize their retirement benefits,
rather than to study the evidence that had been withheld by their professors
in seminary. The Pan-Trib view, in case you have not heard the view
means, "it will all pan out in the end so they don't deal with
prophecy".
Because I hold to the Pre-Trib Rapture position,
and Dispensationalism is the only hermeneutic that correctly holds to the
distinctive nature of Israel and the Church, as two separate entities, I see
only one Rapture, and that begins with the beginning of Daniel's 70th
week. The "Covenant/Reformed" hermeneutic of rendering Scripture
"replaces" Israel with the Church. Paul makes it profoundly clear in
Romans 9,10 & 11 that is incorrect. God is not through with
Israel. The theme that God is not finished with Israel is well
documented for those in doubt. There are some 40 passages of prophecy at
a primary level and as many as 100 passages at a secondary level that supports
God's plan for dealing with Israel, and only after the Church is
removed. I am not attempting to proof-text a doctrine on one or two
verses, but rather, the teaching of a "Seven" year Tribulation is well founded
on no less than 140 passages of Scripture.
I have enjoyed reading your
point of view but as I said, I can't reconcile but one and only
Pre-Tribulation Rapture.
God blessings to you,
Pastor Bob