David H (8 Aug
2013)
"two witnesses, The
case for the Apostle John"
To All Doves,
Since the topic came up, has anyone considered that John the
Apostle, and author of revelation could be one of the two
witnesses.
Facts:
1. We know he was exiled to Patmos, but never suffered
martyrdom. (Supposedly dipped in boiling oil, and remained
unharmed as per Tertullian)
2. We have the following dialogue between Jesus, Peter and John:
20 Peter turned and saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following
them, the one who also had leaned back against him during the
supper and had said, “Lord, who is it that is going to betray
you?” 21 When Peter saw him, he said to Jesus, “Lord, what about
this man?” 22 Jesus said to him, “If it is my will that he
remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow me!” 23 So
the saying spread abroad among the brothers[b] that this
disciple was not to die; yet Jesus did not say to him that he
was not to die, but, “If it is my will that he remain until I
come, what is that to you?” John 21: 20-23
3. Revelation 10:11 shortly before the two witnesses are
introduced, we have the following verse: "11 And I was told,
“You must again prophesy about many peoples and nations and
languages and kings.” A Puzzling, and often overlooked verse.
4. Mark 3:17 calls James and John the "sons of thunder" or
surnamed by Jesus as Boanerges. From Scripture we Know that
Johns brother James was the first Apostle to die, Making a first
and last "thunder". Not sure if this is significant?
5. John was eyewitness of every major event in Jesus' ministry,
being the first Apostle called, (With his brother James), On the
mount of transfiguration, At the foot of the cross as Jesus
died. He most certainly is "qualified".
6. The following verses make it almost imperative that at least
one of the Apostles will be around at the second coming:
27 For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the
glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person
according to what he has done. 28 Truly, I say to you, there are
some standing here who will not taste death until they see the
Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” Matthew 16:27-28
Extra biblical sources: (facts?)
Tradition Says that John died peacefully of old age near
Ephesus. But this is not Scriptural. His tomb is supposedly
outside of Ephesus, Though their is no certainty. (Polycrates is
the only early church father to write of his death, that I could
find, to attribute this to.)
The following is taken from a site describing his tomb.
http://www.sacred-destinations.com/turkey/ephesus-basilica-of-st-john
" Legend had it that John wrote his gospel in Ephesus at the
request of other disciples, then died in the church named for
him on Ayasoluk Hill. Later legends developed that he was not
really dead, but sleeping, and dust could even be seen moving
above his grave as he breathed." ?????
To close, I would like to pose this question to all considering
the identity of the two witnesses. The whole scripture and
context being the very last few Paragraphs of the Bible
(Separation denoted in strongs) Here is the whole text with
Paragraph breaks.
18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this
book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues
described in this book, 19 and if anyone takes away from the
words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share
in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in
this book. (Is this John speaking or Jesus speaking?)
20 He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming
soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus! (Is this John speaking saying he
is coming soon, or is it Jesus as per verse 16 speaking of his
coming...?) (Note, no paragraph break between verse20, and 21)
21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all.[f] Amen. (This is
John speaking, his closing benediction)
The question here for some more learned than myself is; Is
the "I" in verse 18, and the implied "I" in verse 21 Jesus
speaking, as per verse 16, Or is this a closing paragraph by the
writer (v18-21), Promising his own return? Compare this with the
ending of the gospel of John, and the ambiguity he uses to write
of himself there. (John 21:20-25)
Agape.
David H.