http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/aug2013/gino817-4.htm
This is a super post, Gino. You articulate what I've thought many times, but have been unable to formulate. Let me add the following (redlining mine):
Revelation 4
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)4 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. 2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. 3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald. 4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold. 5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God. 6 And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind. 7 And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle. 8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come. 9 And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever, 10 the four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, 11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
Revelation 5
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)There is no need to wonder at who one like the Son of man is, this is the Son of man, as it says. So, who is the Ancient of days? The Ancient of days is the Son of God. What? two Sons, one the Son of God and the other the Son of man? NO! There is only Son, who is both the Son of God and the Son of man at the same time. This is true because he is both God and man at the same time, he is the God‑man, God manifest in the flesh. So, when one sees God does he see the Son of God separate from the Son of man? No, these are only visions given to Daniel, revealing the two natures of Jesus Christ, God and man. Daniel said, in lines 1 and 13, that these were visions, not an “actual” appearance of God.5 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. 2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? 3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. 4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. 6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. 7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne. 8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. 9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 and hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; 12 saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. 14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.
I think whole volumes could be written about just these two chapters. Let me start with two relatively "minor" points. 1. If I read this correctly, the four beasts and the elders sang a new song. And, with the same caveat, the four beasts and the elders all had harps and vials. (It depends on how you interpret "every one of them". I read it as inclusive, referring to both the beasts and the elders. I could be wrong.) If you remember my posts on the animal kingdom and Pember's interpretation, the beasts represent the three animal kingdoms named by Adam plus man himself. That leaves us with the problem of animals being Kings and Priests and ruling on the earth. There are weird and wonderful grammars in these passages, and I wonder if anyone is capable of unraveling them.
2. If the twenty four elders are the twelve apostles and twelve of a variety of different suggestions, we are faced with John seeing himself as an elder. Um, I suspect that the Apostles are not part of this group.
Onwards! The One on the throne is clearly Christ. The Lamb is clearly Christ. The One hands the scroll to the Lamb. Christ hands the scroll to Christ. Huh?
You said:
and:
The passage in Daniel is not the Son coming to the Father’s throne on earth ‑ one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days ‑ but rather a revelation of the two natures of the Lord Jesus Christ. As the Son of God he is shown as the Ancient of days sitting upon the throne of judgment. As the Son of man he is shown coming with the clouds of heaven. In Daniel 7:13, 14 the kingdom is given to the one like the Son of man, yet in line 27it is shown that he is the most High, the Ancient of days:
Gino, I think you've nailed it!
Maranatha,
Bob