Hello, John and Doves,"Brother" Barry, you said,"The problem with this position is that there was no New Testament canon of scripture in existence yet when John wrote those words so how could he have been referring to the entire Bible?"Good question! I submit to you that Paul wrote ALL of his epistles before he died. I further submit to you that he died in about 67 AD. James, the brother of Jesus, died in about 69 AD. Peter died in about 69 AD. Matthew may have died in Ethiopia, before Christianity became widespread there following the dispersing of Christians fleeing the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Mark died in 68 AD. Luke died in 70 AD. Jude died at about 65 AD.Therefore, having the facts before us, we have defeated the major premise of your question, "Brother" Barry. The entire canon of new testament scripture, except for The Revelation of Jesus Christ was in existence before the Apostle John put pen to paper to write the Revelation. If John had not already been obedient to write the gospel account that bears his name, do you suppose that God would trust such an important document as the crown of Scripture, the Revelation, to a proven chuckle-head? Methinks not.Therefore, your minor premise, that John was perhaps not referring to the rest of the Bible must be false. No doubt about it. John was referring to the entire Bible in Revelation 22:18.The Biblical principle is simple. The small part stands in for the whole. In the pre-Christian era,Rabbis would do this all the time. It is called a remez. R - E - M - E - Z, remez.[Oh, btw, as far as like-mindedness goes, you must think me mad (having gone 'round the bend).]Baruch HaShem Adonai Roi, ADONAI Tsidkenu,Mike C._________________________________________________________________________________Barry Amundsen (4 Apr 2012)
"Patti C and Michael Colunga "adding to this book""
Patti, I would like to ask you to please give some regard to what our wise host here, John Tng has written at the top of every "Letters" post board:Please note that it is impossible for even two like-minded souls to agree on everything. You should read these letters with this in mind and pray for understanding from the Spirit of Truth. Thank you.With that in mind, please know that no one here was personally attacking you or wanting to hurt your feelings. Rather, many of us have been reading and posting here for many years and have come to feel a close kinship with all the doves here. Because of this (speaking for myself, a dove since the mid 90's) a certain sense of responsibility for what is being presented here as truth comes with that investment and when someone presents a position on a subject that I feel strongly about I feel it important to give an opinion on the matter. I will admit that I do come across very boldly at times because I am passionate about my faith and beliefs. (I think compared to Apostle Paul, I'm a sweetheart) so I apologize for that. I don't think I pick fights but I will defend a position that I feel is being challenged because to remain silent is the same as agreeing with the person undermining something that I feel needs defending. It is for the sake of others who read here that I become bold and I tend to take my cues from the original poster who made the challenge to begin with. Beyond an investment in the Five Doves site, is my investment in knowing and loving God and His truth and the sense of responsibility I have to share what I have learned with others.If you wish to maintain a certain position on a subject that is your right to do but when you seek to influence others with your posts, be ready for opposing views to be posted as well. We each will give account for what we say and do in this regard. For this reason, I speak up and make my views heard because I have confidence in the one who has taught me (The Holy Spirit). As Paul said when confronted by the Jewish leaders he gave place to them by reason of submission, no not for an hour. Why? Because he was taught by the Holy Spirit and was not going to let men change what he got from God. How's that for bold?Anyway, here is another example:You and Michael Colunga have suggested that to accept the book of Enoch would be violating Apostle John's charge which Colunga says in his opinion this curse applies to the entire Bible, as he quotes the warning by John about adding to the prophecy of this book.The problem with this position is that there was no New Testament canon of scripture in existence yet when John wrote those words so how could he have been referring to the entire Bible? From Wikipedia:_________________________________________________________________Earliest Christian communities -Though the Early Church used the Old Testament according to the canon of the Septuagint (LXX),[14] perhaps as found in the Bryennios List or Melito's canon, the Apostles did not otherwise leave a defined set of new scriptures; instead, the New Testament developed over time.
Writings attributed to the apostles circulated amongst the earliest Christian communities. The Pauline epistles were circulating in collected forms by the end of the 1st century AD. Justin Martyr, in the early 2nd century, mentions the "memoirs of the Apostles," which Christians (Greek: Χριστιανός) called "gospels," and which were considered to be equally as authoritative as the Old Testament.[15]
Main article: Development of the Hebrew Bible canonRabbinic Judaism (Hebrew: יהדות רבנית) recognizes the twenty-four books of the Masoretic Text, commonly called the Tanakh (Hebrew: תַּנַ"ךְ) or "Hebrew Bible." Evidence suggests that the process of canonization occurred between 200 BC and 200 AD, indeed a popular position is that the Torah was canonized c. 400 BC, the Prophets c. 200 BC, and the Writings c. 100 AD[5] perhaps at a hypothetical Council of Jamnia — however, this position is increasingly criticised by modern scholars.
___________________________________________________________________________________
Based on this fact, any suggestion that Apostle John had the canon of scripture as we use it in mind when he made that warning must be rejected. He was very specific in stating the words of the prophecy of THIS book and the plagues described in THIS book and the tree of life and holy city which are described in THIS book.
Therefore, I once again respectfully disagree with you that this statement by Michael Colunga should be the final word on the subject. Not to hurt your feelings but for the sake of others who look here for direction and need both sides of an argument.