Sherry Vance (6 Sep 2011)
"Reply to Barry Amundsen (5 Sep 2011)  "Jews not looking for messiah?""


 
Dear Barry;
 
Yes, I guess I have gone away from the traditional interpretations - at least when I don't find scripture to back it up. 
 
I'm not saying "the Jews aren't looking for their messiah."  The Orthodox Jews certainly are looking for the Messiah.  They believe in the coming of the messianic age heralded by the messiah, and a resurrection of the dead.  But the Orthodox Jews are the minority in the whole of Jewish society.  I don't think you have taken into consideration (because you didn't mention it) Ezekiel's "Dry Bones" and the fact that though the Jews (as a people) are "back in the Land" they are yet without the breath, or the Spirit, of God.  When the man of sin comes along and appears to be someone who can "deliver" on a promise to secure a peaceful co-existence with their enemies, they will accept him as a "messiah" in the sense of the word the "anticipated liberator-guarantor" (just as they thought Jesus was going to do, misunderstanding and rejecting the spiritual significance of His 'deliverance.')....but I can assure you once he declares himself "god" they are going to FLEE from him (just like they did Jesus!)  To the Jews - NO MAN is "god."  That is expressly WHY they will not believe UNTIL they see Him the SECOND TIME! (which, for those who don't get what the "second time" is: they will realize "this man Jesus who historically CAME before" was not only the son of Man, but was and is the SON OF GOD!) But it's not going to happen until He returns and goes into Bozrah to lead them out of where God has been protecting the REMNANT who fled from the antichrist!
  
Did you ever wonder how it can be that the Sanhedrin will be around to declare "Baruch Haba B’Shem Adonai" --- "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord."?  Well, the Sanhedrin are the Orthodox Rabbis....and I believe since it is primarily the Orthodox Jews who will do the fleeing from the antichrist, the Sanhedrin will be among the Remnant who will be there when Jesus comes to them; and it will be these leaders who fulfill Jesus' prophecy "For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord." Matthew 23:39  Why? Because the Sanhedrin was who Jesus was speaking to in Matthew 23:39 and it was primarily the leaders of Jesus day who rejected Him! 
 
No, I don't see the (majority of secular) Jews looking at the antichrist as their long lost messiah.  The Jews who do believe in the God of Israel (yet are non-religious/non-observant/secular) perhaps will get a wake up call when the man of sin says he is "god" and perhaps some of them will flee as well.  But at the point they flee and go into God's witness protection program, they will still be in blindness until Jesus comes to them and they hear their own Rabbis declare Him Lord and they SEE and RECOGNIZE Him as their True Messiah/Son of Man/Son of God. 
 
I won't go into detail about the subject you mentioned concerning WHO are the REAL Jews.  That is an historical, long and complicated study of the House of Israel and the House of Judah.   Suffice it to be said that the Askenazi Jews (who were converted Turks, migrated to Russia, Eastern Europe, and are not really "Jews" as from the blood of Abraham, as are the Sephardic Jews (which originally applied to only three of the twelve tribes of Israel; namely Judah, Benjamin and Levi. These three tribes banded together to form the Kingdom of Judah after the other ten tribes (Joseph counted for two:  Ephraim and Manasseh) broke away to form the Kingdom of Israel not long after the reign of Solomon.  The word "Jew" first appears in II Kings 16: 5-6 in a context that clearly shows "the Jews" to be at war against Israel!  And yes, this subject is of enormous importance in understanding the political and religious ramifications of the returning "House of Israel" and "House of Judah" (for instance, it is the Askenazi Jews who dominate Zionism, which is the return to Eretz Israel, especially after WWII).  Ezekiel 37 contains prophecies for the "real" Israel, which will be known by a sanctuary, a king and the Almighty's covenant of peace.  Chapter 40 to the end describes the location and details of this sanctuary/Temple, which I referenced in the previous post.  But, as I said, this is an enormous study undertaking and not enough room for it here.  But I hope you can see somewhat that the connection between the House of Israel/converted Turks/European Jews/Zionism/WWII and the relationship to the political ramifications of who stands for what  has much to do with what is going on in Israel today.  I will make a general statement that the so-called "real Jews" of the Blood of Abraham will be the ones who "understand and flee" when the man of sin declares himself god....not that others won't see it and understand, but I mean as a general point.
 
Barry, you said:  where it says in the Bible that the Jews will accept the AC as their messiah? How about when Jesus says:  John 5:43.  I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
 
John 5:43, Jesus' statement, shows that the Jews did not accept Him as the messiah (because he offered them something that had nothing to do with the political and religious persecution they sought to be delivered from) but that they will accept a man who comes in his own name (such as Barack Obama) who will seem to do what Jesus did not....which is bring a (false) solution for (false) peace in their 'neighborhood" and who will seem to guarantee their security (by, who else but, the Chief of the U.N. SECURITY Council.)  So will those seeking peace & security in the man of sin look at him as a "messiah" - yes, but again, only in the sense of the word "guarantor of peace"...which we know will not happen anyway since once he is 'revealed' he will go forth to CONQUER (as per the opening of the First Seal.)  "When they shall say peace and safety, sudden destruction shall come upon them." Can you point to any scripture that gives the duration of this (false) peace?  I can't find any.  He will confirm The covenant, "guarantee" their security, and when THEY SAY PEACE & SECURITY sudden destruction comes upon them.  That's all we're told.....but look at the word SUDDEN --- unexpectedly,  instantaneous, quick, without notice.   That's what I get out of that scripture. 
 
The time frame you are looking for, Barry.....that of "from the confirming of the covenant, guaranteeing their security and his subsequent revelation/opening of the First Seal/the abomination/the fleeing of the Remnant" is the time frame from THIS Rosh HaShanah, Sept 29, 2011 until next Nissan/April, which is the MIDST OF THE 70th WEEK.  The confirming of the covenant comes before the rider of the First Seal goes forth to conquer - so he doesn't have to be "revealed" to confirm the covenant.  Indeed, the fact that he is still a mere MAN at the point which, as the Chief of the UN Security Council guarantees Israel's security, is indicative that the great tribulation has not yet begun......yet the 70th Week will be entering the mid-point/4th year of the 7. 
 
As for the miracles that the Bible says the AC and false prophet will be associated with, I think they will be real, obvious, impressive miracles, not just winning a Nobel prize for not doing anything.  Oh yes, I agree with you, Barry!  My mentioning of the "miracles" he (Obama) has done already was tongue-in-cheek (you gotta admit he's done some mighty fancy footwork both behind our backs and in public!)  But we know that "...there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God." Romans 13:1   He's there to be used of God in bringing about the final days before Jesus' return.  I believe once we are gone and the great tribulation is under way, they will see "real, obvious, impressive miracles."..."And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." 2Thess. 2:11-12
 
Well, despite the Scriptures given and trying to "come let us reason together saith the Lord" I can see that you are still unconvinced that the 70th Week has already begun.  You say the Rapture happens before the 70th Week begins, and I say the Rapture happens in the 4th/middle year of the 70th Week (the 4th year begins this Rosh Hashanah, 3 weeks from now.)   The ironic thing about our difference is if we go up anytime from Rosh HaShanah on, you will believe it is pre-7 yr. trib rapture.....but I will believe it is mid-70th Week rapture.....so it appears we won't get this thing straightened out until we 'get there' and see.  So on that note, we can agree to disagree - for now!  LOL
Shalom, Sherry Vance~