From: Marilyn Agee

Re: Kevin Heckle: "Morning Star"

 

Hi:

 

> > There are a few things that I would politely dispute regarding your assertions:

First to be clear, Saturn is not and cannot be the ‘morning star’ representation of Jesus as you assert.  I’m not sure how you base that Biblically and would be curious to hear. 

 

I'm glad you asked. It took me over 7 years to figure this out, and I am happy to share it. First, I read about an 18" stack of books a week from the BIOLA Seminary Collection for 7 years without finding the answer. Finally, I opened my Bible, put my hands on it, and told the Lord that he would have to show me.

 

The light finally began to dawn when I started looking up every original word in Eze. 1. When I realized that the fire enfolding itself with brightness about it was the Sun and sunshine, my eyes began to open. The next breakthrough was that the Earth was mentioned in verse 15. That was a big help. Then the Earth with its orbit was one of the four flying cherubim. In our Solar System, we do have 4 terrestrial planets flying in concentric circles around the Sun. Wow! I feel sure that the translators had no idea of what was being pictured.

 

Ezekiel saw the throne of God in his vision of the heavens. Eze 1:1 says, "the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of God." He saw the Sun as a fire enfolding itself, the four terrestrial planets circling the Sun in concentric orbits, and, as it turns out, the throne of Jesus Christ, the only God/man. It's symbol is the sapphire, which means dear to the planet Saturn, from the Sanskrit Sani, Saturn, and priya, dear. Mt. Sinai is probably derived from Sani (Saturn) too.

 

September's birthstone is the sapphire, meaning heaven. That is perfect. Jesus was born in September, and his throne is in Heaven.

 

The Son of God interacted with mankind in the Old Testament. It was the pre-incarnate Christ that sat on the "sapphire" pavement at Mt. Sinai.

Ex 24:10 says, "they saw the GOD OF ISRAEL: and there was UNDER HIS FEET as it were a paved work of a SAPPHIRE STONE, and as it were the BODY OF HEAVEN (i.e., as if it were the heavenly body) in his (or its) clearness."

Christ is the "God of Israel." Isa. 44:6 says, "Thus saith the LORD (YHWH) the King of Israel, and his redeemer (Christ) the LORD (YHWH) of hosts; I am the first (YHWH, King of Israel), and I am the last (YHWH of hosts); and beside me there is no God."

 

We have proof that the Pre-incarnate Christ sat on the sapphire pavement at Mt. Sinai (representing Sani, Saturn) and gave Moses the 10 commandments.

 

Isa 48:17,18 says, "Thus saith the LORD (YHWH), thy Redeemer (Christ), the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD (YHWH) thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go. O that thou hadst hearkened to MY COMMANDMENTS! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea".

 

Christ's throne is farther out in space than the four terrestrial planets (cherubim).

 

Eze. 1:15 says, "Now as I beheld the living (lively flying) creatures (creations: four planets flying in concentric orbits), behold one wheel (orbit) upon the EARTH by the living creatures (i.e., Earth is one of the four terrestrial planets, Mercury, Venus, Earth and Mars) with his (Earth's) four faces."

 

The same four faces were on flags placed at the cardinal points of the compass when Israel camped in circles, with roads between the rows, around the Tabernacle. The cherubim (planets) orbit in concentric circles, facing in turn north, west, south and east.

 

Eze 10:1 says, "behold, in the firmament (expanse of space) that was above the head of the cherubims (farther out in space than the 4 terrestrial planets) there appeared over them as it were A SAPPHIRE STONE, AS THE APPEARANCE OF THE LIKENESS OF A THRONE."

 

Eze 10.19,20 says, "the cherubims lifted up their wings, and mounted up from the earth in my sight: when they went out, the wheels also were beside them, and every one stood at the door of the east gate of the LORD'S house; and THE GLORY OF THE GOD OF ISRAEL WAS OVER THEM ABOVE. This is the living (lively, i.e., flying) creature (creation, i.e., PLANET) THAT I SAW UNDER THE GOD OF ISRAEL by the river of Chebar; and I knew that they were the cherubims."

 

Eze 1:26-28 says, "And above the firmament (expanse of space) that was over their heads (farther out in space than the terrestrial planets) was the likeness of a THRONE, as the appearance of a SAPPHIRE stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a MAN (the only God/man [verses 1 and 26] is Jesus Christ) above upon it. And I saw as the colour of amber (Saturn has amber on it), as the appearance of fire round about within it (it was lit up as if it was a lamp), from the appearance of his loins (from the equator) even upward, and from the appearance of his loins (from the equator) even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about (rings of ice crystals shining in the sunlight as in a rainbow). As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about (i.e., the ring system of Saturn). This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD."

Eze 10:4 also mentions the glory of the Lord. It says, "Then the glory of the LORD went up from the cherub (one on the side of the Ark of the Covenant), and stood over the threshold of the house (i.e., the Temple); and the house was filled with the cloud, and the court was full of the brightness of the LORD'S glory."

In the Tabernacle, each width of fabric in the tent above had cherubim embroidered on it. The ones in the front were folded back so that the first one above represented Saturn. That was because Saturn is the last naked-eye planet. The cherubim that folded over the back corner of the Tabernacle represented Earth. 

Thus Psa 118:22 says, "The stone which the builders refused (Christ) is become the head stone of the corner" (i.e., Christ will be the King of kings and Lord of lords of Earth).

The Temple's Brazen Sea depicted the watery orb of Earth. Mars and Jupiter were depicted by the double-cubed Holy Place, and Saturn (the third Heaven Paul was caught up to in II Cor 12:2-4) was depicted by the cubed Holy of Holies. The length, breadth and height of each planet are equal, just as the length, breadth and height of each cube is equal.

In 2Cor 12:2-4, Paul said, "I knew a man (Paul himself, he didn't want to boast) in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the THIRD HEAVEN (1. Mars, 2. Jupiter, and 3. Saturn). And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) How that he was caught up into PARADISE (Heaven, Saturn), and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter."

Rev 2:7 says, "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the PARADISE of God" (i.e., the third heaven, Saturn).

Josephus, a Pharisee priest, told us in both "Antiquities" and "Wars" that the lampstand in the Temple stood for the Sun (the western lamp that was always to be kept burning), Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn (Ant. III. VI. 7; Wars V. V. 5).

These planet's orbits stretched out to the east and west of Earth, i.e., "on the sides of the north."

Therefore, Psa 48:2 says of the heavenly Mt. Zion, "Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is mount Zion, on the sides of the north, the city of the great King." Christ is the "great King."

Gen 3:24 says, "So he drove out the man (i.e., God drove Adam out of Eden); and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden (i.e., rising in the eastern sky) Cherubims (planets), and a flaming sword (Satan's asteroid, Wormwood; Rev. 8:11) which turned every way (rotated and orbited), to keep the way of (or to) the tree of life" (which is in the heavenly Paradise, Saturn).

If the cherubim are the naked-eye planets, what are the seraphim?

Isa 6:1-3 says, "In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne (on Saturn), high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. Above it (Saturn) stood the seraphims (Uranus, Neptune and Pluto): each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly. And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory."

Job 38:7 mentions, "When the MORNING STARS sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy".

The main morning stars, rising at midnight or in the early AM, are Venus, Jupiter and Saturn, but on Cheshvan 17, 5771, Oct. 25, 2010, the ONLY morning star in the sky from about 2:40 AM to Sunup will be Saturn.

Therefore, I think that Saturn is what Jesus was alluding to in Rev. 22:16,17. He said, "I Jesus have sent mine angel (i.e., the Angel of the Lord, which was the Pre-incarnate Christ in the Old Testament) to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root (YHWH) and the offspring of David (Jesus, i.e., the God/man), and the BRIGHT AND MORNING STAR. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come." We will go to the bright and morning star at the Rapture.

Will Christ come to Earth from the Morning Star, Saturn, to pick up his Bride? It looks that way to me.

Rev 2:25-29 says, "But that which ye have already  (Christians already have Christ) hold fast till I come. And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. And I WILL GIVE HIM THE MORNING STAR (Heaven, Saturn, the only morning star in the sky from 2:40 AM to Sunup on Cheshvan 17, 5771). He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."

What does the Spirit say to you?

On March 21, 2010, Saturn was opposite the Sun, and it is nearest to the Earth during THIS ORBIT. Wow! What a mathematician God is.

Today, a morning star is a planet seen just before sunrise in the eastern sky.

In the Bible, the evening and morning were the first day. The evening was the going down of the Sun, from noon until midnight. The morning then, was from midnight to noon. A morning star could be seen from midnight to Sunup.

> > As for a sign in Capricorn, the one-horned goat as described in Daniel 8 is the representation of Alexander the Great, coming ‘across the whole earth’ (six months) from the west to defeat the two horns (Taurus)of the Medes and the Persians, standing by the river.  I doubt Jesus birth was represented by a beast rising from the sea, Capricorn being half-fish, half one-horned goat.

However, in the Gospel in the Stars, Capricorn represents Christ, who died and was resurrected. Alexander the Great and the Medes and Persians are not part of the Gospel story. Christ is. His death and resurrection are part of the Gospel in the stars.

Agape,
Marilyn Agee
mjagee@verizon.net
http://prophecycorner.theforeverfamily.com

 

Kevin Heckle (28 Sep 2010)
"Re: Steve Fink, Marilyn Agee's part 2 Astronomy and the Birth of Jesus"

---

Marilyn,

I read your astronomical reckoning regarding the birth of Jesus.  First of all, in the overall scheme of things it is really of no consequence the exact date of Jesus birth as he was born, died and rose again.  He yet lives and is King of Kings.  That having been said, the subject is interesting.  I’m not sure how much it edifies the body to have a myriad of theories, counting generations, etc.

There are a few things that I would politely dispute regarding your assertions:

First to be clear, Saturn is not and cannot be the ‘morning star’ representation of Jesus as you assert.  I’m not sure how you base that Biblically and would be curious to hear. 

In general, most all celestial objects can have a ‘morning’ or heliacal rising with the morning sun at some point during the year, but not all.  I believe that only Venus holds that distinction of not occurring at least once during the year, first rising with the sun after 583.92 days on average.  The definition of a ‘morning star’ is an celestial object rising with the sun, a heliacal rising: being at the same place along the ecliptic. 

The rising with the sun can endure for a time, but the slower outer planets fall out of sync with the sun’s rising more quickly, enduring longer in each station of the Mazzaroth. 

On the first date you proposed, 9/25/7 BC the sun was at about 162 degrees (estimate just by looking) along the ecliptic and Saturn was 145 degrees or so behind it being at about 17 degrees along the ecliptic in the constellation Aries.  It takes Saturn 29.4571 years to make one orbit of the sun, so consequently it moves relatively slow from constellation to constellation taking a month of days (29.88 days) to move one degree.  So if each constellation is 30 degrees (360/12), it will take 30+ months of days just to move from one constellation to the next.  During the time frame in question, Saturn is in the constellation Aries and at approximately 145 degrees away. For Saturn to be a ‘morning star’ rising with the Sun, on or around September 4, did not occur for almost 12 more years.

If as you say, “on September 4, 5 BC, it (Saturn) was at mid-sky at midnight, by daylight 6AM that morning, Saturn would have set in the west.

While we may place certain importance on heavenly signs, it may not have meant the same to the Magi.  Determining what motivated them to visit Judah in search of a newborn king, based on the prophecy in Micah is the question.  Some modern writers may equate Judah with Pisces, but there is very little basis Biblically or historically for that assertion.  Judah, to the ancients, was represented by the constellation Aries the Pascal lamb.  They sacrificed the Passover lamb while in Egypt, to their consternation as the Egyptians worshipped the ram.  Spreading the blood of the Passover on the lentil marked the beginning of their Exodus.  The sun passing the Aries spring equinox, marked the countdown to the full moon for Passover.

Prior to that, Abraham sacrificed the bullock (like Aries) instead of his son.  Prior to that, the first acceptable sacrifice to the Lord is told in the story of Cain and Abel.  The twelve tribes, represented in the Mazzaroth are described in the book of Revelation:  Judah is the first mentioned.  The first month is Nisan, even though the ‘head’ of the year is in the seventh.  Nisan is under Aries.  The Tetrabiblos during that time also delineated Judah with the constellation Aries.  When the Romans conquered Judah, they printed coins celebrating the victory over Judah with Aries depicted under a star.  During the 2150 years that the Hebrew story developed, the spring equinox fell in Aries! Herod took the Magi seriously when they told him of the portent in Aries, which he knew was the sign of the land of Judah.

As for a sign in Capricorn, the one-horned goat as described in Daniel 8 is the representation of Alexander the Great, coming ‘across the whole earth’ (six months) from the west to defeat the two horns (Taurus)of the Medes and the Persians, standing by the river.  I doubt Jesus birth was represented by a beast rising from the sea, Capricorn being half-fish, half one-horned goat. 

It seems unlikely that Jesus would be represented by a dying star (nova) either as it would have no known meaning to the Magi.

At the time of Jesus birth, the birth of a king was believed to be represented by the rising of Jupiter, the king planet, with the Sun, which it did on 4/17/6 BC in the constellation of Aries along with the new moon.  Luke 2:13 describes the ‘heavenly host’ which refers to the other planets all within 1 hour of right ascension, Venus being the first to rise.  The magi said they saw the star in the east.  Aries is an eastern constellation as well as the event occurred in the east, not the west as Saturn was on 9/4/5 BC.

In December of 6 BC, the Magi asked Herod where to find the new born King.  Bethlehem was the answer.  The Magi, leaving the south gate towards Bethlehem, would have looked up and seen the same sight at night, as Jupiter and the moon both stood over head at the zenith in ARIES!!!  The sacrificial lamb was provided by God, for all.

At Jesus Crucifixion, 34 years later, the full Passover moon was beneath Virgo.  He shed the blood for our door posts!  The morning Jesus rose, on the third day, Venus rose with the sun a bright and morning star!!  The day star had arisen!!!!  May he arise in the hearts of the lost!!!

 

Mosel Tov, (meaning good constellations in Hebrew)

Kevin Heckle