Hi Kent and Doves,

 

 

I enjoyed reading your posts the other day. Five Doves is a wonderful forum where we can post just about anything as it relates to the Lord, especially His coming.

For the most part, I have found folks to be kind, respective, and considerate of one another, even though  they may not agree on everything. Thank you John for setting

the tone with this. It is refreshing and welcoming. Sure,  we often do not see eye to eye on matters, but that is what gives this forum it's richness and uniqueness.

 

As you are well aware, your post," Are You Rapture Ready?", is a an age old divisive topic in Christianity. The subject concerning what constitutes a person being saved

has been debated over the ages. I have found that debating topics like this is by and large fruitless for me. I am not talking about with non believers, but believers with differing views.

I am fully aware of all the arguments pro and con. I know all the scriptures as well. We could go around and around on this one and most likely the only place we would get

at is frustration and anger. I have learned all too often that it's really not worth it. It's not to say folks can't or shouldn't debate such topics, but for me, I just choose to agree

to disagree. You are my brother in Christ. Someday we will meet, give each other a big bear hug, and worship Jesus together. I sense your tone is one of sincerity, kindness, and

respect. That is what I choose to take away from your post. You are indeed my BIC !

 

So with that said, I am not going to engage you in a "friendly" debate. I'll leave that to other Doves if they so wish. I once sat on your side of the fence; in a denomination

that considered baptism a vital part of salvation. I no longer do. I know all the compelling arguments. I am a good debater and apologist on many biblical topics. Yes,

you probably are barking up the wrong tree with me on this one. So with that I will agree to disagree in love.

 

 

There is a song by an old 70's rocker named Dave Mason. It goes like this:

 

There ain't no good guy

There ain't no bad guy

There's only you and me

And we just disagree. 

 

 

Below is a very brief outline/view with regards to the necessity of baptism as it relates to salvation. This really isn't so much for you Kent as it is for other Doves who wish to hear a

differing view. This is what I firmly believe. Blessings to all !

 

YBIC,

 

Steve W.

Is Baptism Necessary for Salvation – The Meaning
People around the world ask this question: Is baptism necessary for salvation? The word "baptism" is a transliteration of the Greek word "baptisma" and this word is from a primary Greek verb "bapto," which is also the root of the word baptize. The word means to dip, to dye or to change the identification of. When a piece of white cloth was "bapto" into a vat of blue dye, it no longer was white cloth because its identification was changed to blue cloth. That is the root of the meaning of the word.

The rite of baptism was a ritual in the Jewish culture from the beginning. Ceremonial washing of priests and the dipping temple utensils into water was part of the law. For instance, a priest was "baptized" into his office as a priest and it was to dedicate and identify the priest in his position. This baptism set apart the priest to take part in the temple worship and sacrifices. The baptism of the utensils set them apart for a specific use in worship. When John the Baptist came on the scene, Jews came to him to be baptized for the confession of their sins. This was not for salvation because the LORD Jesus Christ had not yet paid the price for sin. The baptism of John the Baptist was an Old Testament economy baptism and it only signified the participant's willingness to confess his sin and therefore, John the Baptist's baptism was for repentance (Acts 19:4).

Is Baptism Necessary for Salvation – The Biblical Evidence
It is interesting to note that Jesus did not baptize. "The Pharisees heard that Jesus was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John, although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but His disciples" (John 4:1-2). If water baptism were necessary for salvation, wouldn't Jesus have baptized? Jesus presented Himself to the Jews as their Messiah with signs and Messianic miracles, but He did not baptize them.

The Apostle Paul only baptized a few. "Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul? I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, so no one can say that you were baptized into my name. (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don't remember if I baptized anyone else.) For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel -- not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power" (1 Corinthians 1:13-17).

Those who teach that baptism is necessary for salvation overlook this statement of Paul's. If water baptism were necessary for salvation would not the Apostle Paul have made water baptism a central theme of his ministry? Rather, the Apostle Paul taught the "baptism of the Holy Spirit," which occurs when one is born again and it is a spiritual identification as the believer is placed IN Christ. "For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body -- whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free" (1 Corinthians 12:13). The Holy Spirit baptizes us or identifies us as a child of God and then seals us and sets us apart to the "day of redemption" or the day when our redemption will be completed and we see Him "face to face." "And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption" (Ephesians 4:30).

Is Baptism Necessary for Salvation – The Conclusion
Is baptism necessary for salvation? If the question is concerning water baptism, the answer is no. We are not saved by ritual or works but by "grace through faith." "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith -- and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God -- not by works, so that no one can boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9). Therefore, water baptism does not save us. However, the baptism of the Spirit is necessary for salvation and that has nothing whatever to do with water and it is not something we do for ourselves, it is God's gift to us at the moment we are born again.

If water baptism were not necessary for salvation, why then would someone be baptized? Baptism is an outward action based on an inward reality. Baptism is a testimony that the participant has trusted in Christ as Savior and they are identifying himself/herself by submitting themselves to baptism. We cannot rest our hope of salvation on something that we can do for ourselves rather.