Michael Colunga (16 Oct 2010)
"RE: Was John Darby (1800-1882) the first man to teach a 7 Year Tribulation period"

 
Hello, John and Doves,
 
It is always important to realize that when we are trying to analyze the future,
we need to be able to look at the future today.
 
If I want to tell you today what the future is going to be, then I better have seen
the future yesterday.
 
If anything is unclear, then I need to have access to yesterday today.
This is because it was yesterday that I was looking at tomorrow.
Today, I had better be able to turn that focusing knob yesterday in order see tomorrow
clearer, and thus remember today what I did, so that in real-time, I can both adjust and
remember, as well as converse with you today, and monitor your understanding.
 
I know for an unalterable fact that this is how God operates.  He showed me this in a dream.
Simultaneously, He is in the past, present, and future.  [Isaiah 46:10]
 
As far as man goes, it is written,
"God has made everything beautiful for its own time. He has planted eternity in the human heart,
but even so, people cannot see the whole scope of God's work from beginning to end."
                                                                                                                                Ecclesiastes 3:11
 
I applaud your enthusiasm, Jovial, but we, all of us--without exception--have our limits.
 
Let us all in our great mental efforts not reach the hubris of Isaiah 14:12-14,
but aim for the meekness of the Apostle Paul.
 
In HaShem,
Mike C.
 
 
Jovial (15 Oct 2010)
"Was John Darby (1800-1882) the first man to teach a 7 Year Tribulation period?"

John Darby (1800-1882) is generally credited as the first man to teach the idea that there would be a 7 year tribulation period.  Prior to Darby , there is no known record of anyone claiming that the 7 years of Dan 9:27 outlines the length of the tribulation period in the book of Revelation. 
 
It's not that there aren't an abundance of commentators.  For example, all of the following people commented on the End Times, the False Messiah, and other such topics:
  • The last chapter of the Didache (circa 100-120 AD) outlines the events of the Second Coming, but says nothing about a 7 year trib period.
  • Irenaeus (120-200 AD), in Book V Chapter XXV ,  quotes from Daniel to discuss the tribulations and says the false messiah would reign for 3.5 years, and makes no mention of any greater length of 7 years.
  • Hippolytus (170-236 AD) talked a lot on this topic in his "Treatise on the Christ and the AntiChrist" and did similar to Irenaeus, talking of the False Messiah reigning for 1,260 days (3.5 years), but made no mention of any 7 year period. 
  • Cyprian (200-258 AD) discusses the false messiah too in Letter 55 but said nothing about a 7 year tribulation.
  • Victorinus (circa 240 AD) wrote a Commentary on the entire Book of Revelation, but not once did he mention anything about the tribulation period being 7 years in length.  There's a lot of SEVEN's in the book of Revelation (7 churches, 7 trumpets, 7 seals) and as such, he talks a lot about the symbolic meaning of the number 7 in his commentary on the first chapter.  But still, not once does he say anything about a 7 year period despite all of these opportunities and places where one would expect such.
  • Ephraim the Syrian (4th century AD) discusses the false messiah reigning for 3.5 years, but says nothing of any sort of 7 year tribulation period.
One could probably go through one example after another and find similar results; one commentator after another from the earliest times right on up to Darby had no notion of the End Times fitting into some sort of 7 year time period.  We even see the opposite , for all of them talk about the false messiah reigning for only 3.5 years.    Darby (19th century AD) is the first person history knows of to suggest that the entire tribulation period would fit into some sort of 7 year period.
 
Now yesterday FM Riley claimed that , "God’s people [true believers] throughout this present dispensation have always taught a future seven year Tribulation. "  This is just simply not true.  And if someone wants to allege such a thing, then I would like to challenge them to find me someone who, prior to John Darby, taught a 7 year tribulation period.  If Darby got the idea from an earlier source, I'd like to know.  But none of the earliest writers seem to know anything about it.  It's a post-Nicean concept that's for sure, because none of the pre-Nicean writers had anything to say about it. 
 
I even checked out what Isaac Newton (1642-1727) wrote about Daniel today and he wrote a very extensive commentary on Daniel trying to correlate the events in Daniel with historical events.  He mentions nothing of a 7 year trib period and he enterpreted the 7 years of Daniel 9:27 as ending in Acts 10 when the Cornelius, who was among first Gentile believers, accepted the Gospel!
 
Furthermore, he  also said, "The “interpretation” of Daniel 9:26-27 which has been traditionally taught by all true believers right through the centuries is completely vindicated.  The debate is over!" to be highly objectionable.  It's as if you're calling into question the salvation of anyone who is less than convinced that all of Revelation has to fit into some sort of 7 year time frame.  The debate is not over, and no, "all true believers right through the centuries" did not teach this.  In fact, most "true believers right through the " first 19 "centuries" never heard of the idea. 
 
Fast forward to today, and there are so many Protestant pastors that teach Darbyism (the 7 year Trib theory), that most of them have no clue that this is not universally accepted by all Christians in all parts of the world.  They have no clue that the idea is unheard of in pre-19th century writings.  they just assume "Everybody knows this" when in reality no one heard of it until John Darby in the 19th century. 
 
Now maybe if someone had sat down and COUNTED THE CLUES, such as the 1st woe being at least 5 months long, the second woe streching into at least part of a 43rd month, and the 3rd woe being 42 months long, Darbyism may not have gotten started and Darby would have seen the error of his ways.  But some people are so hung up on the traditions they have already accepted that even when you show them PROOF FROM SCRIPTURE that in the form of 2 + 2 = 4, or in this case 5 + 43 + 42 = 90 > 7 years, they still don't believe what is obvious from the plain ink because they have held that idea in their mind, and any idea that is believed true for more than 3 days will never go away with some people.  For some folks its any idea over 2 weeks.   Some people are more set in their ways than others.    But let's pay attention to what Scripture says, and not what Darby or other man-made doctrines have to say, and maybe Prophecy will start making a lot more sense to us.  And when a doctrine "doesn't add up", like this one doesn't, then let's just face that fact that the only timeline we can put on the trib period is that it will be at LEAST 90 months (7.5 years), probably more, but we don't know EXACTLY how long because there are tribulation events who's time isn't counted.  All we can do is put a minimum figure on how long it will last, not an exact figure on it.
 
Shalom, Joe