Weldon Wright (4 Oct 2005)
"Reply to Marilyn and Matt"
http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/oct2005/weldonw104-2.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Although not a popular view with most the Doves, there are a few of us who
believe that the rapture occurs when the Day of the Lord begins - some
future Feast of Trumpets. I personally believe this is right after the sixth
seal and the sixth trumpet in The Revelation. I believe the church is here
during the Trumpets which is the wrath of Satan, but God uses it as a
warning to unbelievers, and as a testing of believers. Then to me, the
rapture occurs, the Day of the Lord begins and God pours out his wrath
rapidly in the bowl judgements. I also think the marriage takes place in the
seven days (Days of Awe) between Rosh Hashannah and Yom Kippur, and then we
return with Jesus on Yom Kippur. To me this fits scripture without
stretching or taking it out of context a lot more than any other supposition
(Pretrib, mid-trib, etc) out there - and you don't have to make a seven day
wedding feast symbolize seven years! of Tribulation - it's seven days!
Blessings to all.
Weldon
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Marilyn Agee
Hi:
> > there are a few of us who believe that the rapture occurs when the Day of the Lord begins - some future Feast of Trumpets.
That is when I think the second Rapture will take place. It is the Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Tribulation saints. It takes place after the beginning of the Day of God's Wrath in Rev. 6:17 and before Rev. 8:1, when the seventh seal is broken.
Rev 6:15-17 says, "the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne (Christ, on the Day of the Lord), and from THE WRATH OF THE LAMB: FOR THE GREAT DAY OF HIS WRATH (CHRIST'S, NOT SATAN'S) IS COME; and who shall be able to stand?"
Amos 5: 18 says, "WOE TO YOU WHO LONG FOR THE DAY OF THE LORD! Why do you long for the day of the LORD? THAT DAY WILL BE DARKNESS, NOT LIGHT."
Of those caught up in the second Rapture, only the 144,000 Israelites will be added to the Bride group that was caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture.
Rev 14:1-5 says, "I looked, and, lo, a Lamb (Christ) stood on the mount Sion (the Heavenly New Jerusalem), and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and NO MAN COULD LEARN THAT SONG BUT THE HUNDRED AND FORTY AND FOUR THOUSAND, WHICH WERE REDEEMED FROM THE EARTH. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins (having become wise). These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God."
> > I personally believe this is right after the sixth seal and the sixth trumpet in The Revelation.I think it is right after the sixth seal and before the 7th SEAL is broken in Rev. 8:1. Until that 7th seal is broken, no trumpet judgments will hit Earth.
The seals, trumpets, and vials are arranged like circle clocks. Draw a large circle. Put in it 6 touching circles around a 7th circle in the middle. These represent the 7 seals. In the 7th circle is another circle clock. These circles represent the 7 trumpets that come out of the 7th seal. In the middle of the 7th seal, draw 7 more circles. These are the vials. They come out of the 7th trumpet, none overlapping the other trumpets or the seals.
> > I believe the church is here during the Trumpets which is the wrath of Satan
The seven trumpets are the Lord's wrath and 1Th 5:9 says, "GOD HATH NOT APPOINTED US TO WRATH, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ."
Rev. 6:16,17 says men will say to the rocks "Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne (Christ, when the Sign of the Son of Man [Mt. 24:30] is seen on the Day of the Lord), and from THE WRATH OF THE LAMB: FOR THE GREAT DAY OF HIS (CHRIST'S) WRATH IS COME."
Eze 38:18-20 tells us about God's/Christ's wrath. It says, "it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that MY FURY shall come up in my face. For in my jealousy and in the fire of MY WRATH have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence (paniym, face, i.e., in the Sign of the Son of Man), and the mountains (i.e., asteroids) shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground."
This will take place when the asteroid of Rev. 8:8 impacts the Mediterranean Sea and the asteroid of Rev. 8:10 wipes out Babylon. When the seven trumpets are given to the seven angels, but before they begin to sound, another angel symbolically puts fire of the altar in a spherical incense burner and casts it upon the Earth. Then the 7 angels start to blow their 7 trumpets.
The seven trumpet judgments describe what happens when the asteroids impact Earth. After some time has gone by, the seven vials show what the ultimate result of the wrath of the Lamb will be. For instance, in Rev. 8:9, "the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed." In Rev. 16:3, "every living soul died in the sea."
> > to me, the rapture occurs, the Day of the Lord begins and God pours out his wrath
rapidly in the bowl judgements.
To me, the Pre-Trib Rapture takes place, then the7-year Tribulation begins and the Beast begins to rule. He rules 3.5 years. Mid-Trib, the False Prophet takes the reins of leadership from the Beast as the Great Tribulation begins. That time is to be shortened when the great and terrible Day of the Lord begins. The Pre-Wrath Rapture takes place, then the seven trumpet judgments are cast on Earth. After some time has gone by, the vials sum up the destruction that hit on the Day of Destruction, the great and terrible Day of the Lord.
Job 21:29, 30 says, "do ye not know...the wicked is reserved to the DAY OF DESTRUCTION? they shall be brought forth to THE DAY OF WRATH."
Isa 13:6 says, "Howl ye; for the DAY OF THE LORD is at hand; it shall come as a DESTRUCTION FROM THE ALMIGHTY" (Christ, Rev. 1:8).
Joel 1:15 says, "Alas for the day! for the DAY OF THE LORD is at hand, and as a DESTRUCTION FROM THE ALMIGHTY (Christ) shall it come."
Joel 2:1,2 says, "Blow ye the TRUMPET in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the DAY OF THE LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; A DAY OF DARKNESS and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of THICK DARKNESS, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong (Gog's army); there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations."
> > I also think the marriage takes place in the seven days (Days of Awe) between Rosh Hashannah and Yom Kippur
I think the Marriage of the Lamb takes place on one day, the Feast of Trumpets at the end of the shortened Great Tribulation. As soon as the Bride group that were caught up to Heaven in the Pre-Trib Rapture are gathered to the General Assembly in Heaven (Heb. 12:23), and the 144,000 Israelites caught up from Earth in the Pre-Wrath Rapture, are gathered to the General Assembly in Heaven, The Coronation of Christ will take place. Then the Marriage of the Lamb will take place. After that, Christ will be seated as Judge at the Judgment Seat of Christ while both Heaven and Earth are quiet out of respect (Rev. 8:1; Hab. 2:20). The saints in Heaven will receive their rewards while the unbelievers on Earth receive the wrath of God.
Rev. 11:15-19 says, "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he (Christ) shall REIGN for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art (at the Judgment Seat of Christ), and wast (at the First Advent), and art to come (7 months later at the Second Advent on Nisan 1, the first day of the Regnal and Sacred Year); because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and THY WRATH IS COME, and the time of the dead, that they should be JUDGED (at the JUDGMENT SEAT OF CHRIST), and that thou shouldest give REWARD unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; AND shouldest DESTROY them which destroy the earth. And ! the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail."
The two stone tablets with the 10 commandments on them are dumped out of the Ark onto the Earth. They represent the asteroids of Rev. 8:8,10. The worldwide earthquake leaves all the cities in shambles. Every wall will fall.
Rev. 16:19 says, "the great city (Jerusalem) was divided into three parts, and THE CITIES OF THE NATIONS FELL: AND GREAT BABYLON came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of HIS WRATH."
Rev. 18:21 says, "And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone (i.e., the asteroid of Rev. 8:10), and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city BABYLON be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all."
In Zech. 5:3,4, The binary asteroid, "THE CURSE THAT GOETH FORTH (orbits) OVER THE FACE OF THE WHOLE EARTH...every one that stealeth shall be cut off as on this side according to it (one of the stone tablets); and every one that sweareth shall be cut off as on that side according to it (the other stone tablet). I will bring it (the binary asteroid that is twice as long as wide) forth, saith the LORD of hosts (Christ, Isa. 44:6), and it shall enter into the house of the thief (the False Prophet, the second Son of Perdition), and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by my name (the Beast, the Tribulation Pope, who claims infallibility): and it shall remain in the midst of his house (in Babylon), and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof."
Zech 5:10,11 says, "Then said I to the angel that talked with me, Whither do these bear the ephah (largest wheat measure, i.e., the world church)? And he said unto me, To build it an house in the land of Shinar (Babylon, Gen. 11:2; Dan. 1:2): and it shall be established, and set there upon her own base" (the foundation of the Tower of Babel).
> > and then we return with Jesus on Yom Kippur
I think the Second Advent will be 7 months later, on the first day of the Regnal and Sacred Year.
Zeph. 2:1-5 says, "Gather yourselves together, yea, gather together, O nation not desired (Israel, in 1948); Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, before the day of the LORD'S anger come upon you (on Tishri 1, the Feast of Trumpets). Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be HID (sa^thar, BE ABSENT, i.e., be raptured) IN THE DAY OF THE LORD'S ANGER. For Gaza shall be forsaken, and Ashkelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod at the NOON day, and Ekron shall be rooted up. Woe unto the inhabitants of the sea coast".
The asteroids of Rev. 8:8,10 will impact Earth at NOON on the great and terrrible Day of the Lord. Therefore, the Pre-Wrath Rapture will take place between 6 PM, when that date begins, and the following noon.
At that time, the bottomless pit will be opened, freeing the demons to torment men five months (Rev. 9). I doubt that we will return with Christ until after those five months are up. Eze. 39:12,13 shows that it will actually be 7 months later, i.e., Nisan 1 in a Hebrew Leap Year.
Eze. 39:12,13 says, "And SEVEN MONTHS shall the house of Israel be burying of them (those of Gog's army that were killed when the asteroid hit the Mediterranean Sea on Tishri 1, the Feast of Trumpets), that they may cleanse the land. Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified (i.e., at the Second Advent 7 months later), saith the Lord GOD."
I think the darkness of Tishri 1 will still make the Day of Atonement a dark day.
Of the Second Advent, Zec 14:4-9 says, "his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and THE LORD MY GOD SHALL COME, AND ALL THE SAINTS WITH THEE. And it shall come to pass IN THAT DAY, THAT THE LIGHT SHALL NOT BE CLEAR, NOR DARK (therefo! re it is not the Day of the Lord, the Day of Darkness): But it shall be one day (Nisan 1) which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light. And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. And the LORD (Christ) shall be king over all the earth: in that day (IN THE SPRING) shall there be one LORD, and his name one."
Agape, Marilyn Agee
mjagee1@earthlink.net
http://prophecycorner.com/agee/
http://home.earthlink.net/~mjagee1