Hi:> > 2 Thessalonians Ch. 2 tells us very directly that the Rapture cannot take place until:1. there is a definite split within Christendom and also2. that the man of sin be revealed ( sitting in the Temple as God ) before we can be raptured.We are counseled not to be deceived in this matter by anyone.
> > The deception being touted by most of Christendom is that the "falling away" means "departure".OK ... we'll give these word- sleuths the benefit of the doubt.What they are actually saying then is this:"The Rapture cannot take place until the Rapture takes place".> > ???????????????????????????????????????????????
> > I credit the Bible with much more depth than that.
Jim, the Bible does have more depth than that.I think the KJV translation is still misleading you in II Thess. 2:1-3. There are two mistakes in translation. It is the day of the Lord that is said to be at hand, and the departure does come first.II Thess. 2:1-3 (KJV) says, "Now we beseech you, brethren (believers), by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ (at the Rapture), and by our gathering together unto him (at the Rapture), That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ (day of the Lord) is at hand.Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away (departure, i.e., the Rapture) first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition" (the Satan-possessed False Prophet).In the Introduction to the Tischendorf New Testament, it explains that "The Authorised Version, like Luther's, was made from a Greek text which Erasmus in 1516, and Robert Stephens in 1550, had formed from manuscripts of later date than the tenth century....Since the sixteenth century Greek manuscripts have been discovered of far greater antiquity than those of Erasmus and Stephens; as well as others in Latin, Syriac, Coptic, and Gothic, into which languages the sacred text was translated between the second and fourth centuries...Scholars are much divided as to the readings which most exactly convey the Word of God, but one thing is agreed upon by the majority of those who understand the subject, namely, that the oldest copies approach the original text more nearly than the later ones...."Three manuscripts undoubtedly stand at the head of all the ancient copies of the New Testament, and it is by their standard that both the early editions of the Greek text and the modern versions are to be compared and corrected....And it thus occurred to Baron Tauchnitz and myself that it would be to the interests of both piety and learning if we took the occasion of the thousandth volume of the "Tauchnitz Collection" to issue an edition of the English Authorised Version of the New Testament, which should exhibit the various departures of that Version from the three oldest and most important manuscripts"....The three manuscripts are the Vatican Codex, the Alexandrine Codex, and the Sinaitic Codex, which Tischendorf found "in 1844 and 1859 at the Convent of St. Catherine, on Mount Sinai".The Tischendorf New Testament has this note for II Thess. 2:2, "SVA the day of the Lord." That means that all three ancient codexes agree that "the day of Christ" (as in KJV) should read "the day of the Lord."As for the departure, using eSword's comparison of different versions, these translations back up the departing that is the Rapture.II Thess 2:3-13 (Geneva, 1560, prior to the KJV of 1611) says, "Let no man deceiue you by any meanes: for that day (Day of the Lord, i.e., the Day of God's Wrath) shall not come, except there come A DEPARTING FIRST (the Rapture comes first), and that that man of sinne (the False Prophet) be disclosed (SECOND), euen the sonne of perdition, Which is an aduersarie, and exalteth him selfe against all that is called God, or that is worshipped: so that he doeth sit as God in the Temple of God (Mid-Trib), shewing him selfe that he is God. Remember ye not, that when I was yet with you, I tolde you these things? And nowe ye knowe what WITHHOLDETH that he might be REVEILED IN HIS TIME (THE TRIBULATION). For the mysterie of iniquitie doeth already worke: onely he (the Holy Spirit in believers) which nowe withholdeth, SHALL LET (Old English for hinder) ! TILL HE BE TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY (at the Rapture). And then (after the Rapture) shall that wicked man (the False Prophet) be reueiled, whome the Lorde shall consume with the Spirit of his mouth, and shall abolish with the brightnes of his comming, Euen him whose comming is by the effectuall working of Satan (the False Prophet will be Satan possessed), with all power, and signes, and lying wonders, And in al deceiuablenes of vnrighteousnes, among them that perish, because they receiued not the loue of the trueth, that they might be saued. And therefore God shal send them strong delusion, that they should beleeue lies, That all they might be damned which beleeued not the trueth, but had pleasure in vnrighteousnes. But we ought to giue thankes alway to God for you, brethren beloued of the Lord, because that God hath from the beginning chosen you to saluation, through sanctification of the Spirit, and the faith of trueth".2 Thess 2:3-9 (HNV) says, "Let no one deceive you in any way. For it will not be, unless THE DEPARTURE COMES FIRST, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction" (SECOND), he who opposes and exalts himself against all that is called God or that is worshiped; so that he sits as God in the temple of God, setting himself up as God. Don't you remember that, when I was still with you, I told you these things? Now you know what is restraining him, to the end that HE MAY BE REVEALED IN HIS OWN SEASON (THE TRIBULATION). For the mystery of lawlessness already works. Only there is one who restrains now, until he is taken out of the way (at the Rapture). Then the lawless one will be revea! led, whom the Lord will kill with the breath of his mouth, and destroy by the manifestation of his coming; even he whose coming is according to the working of Hasatan with all power and signs and lying wonders".
II Thess 2:3-9 (WEB) says, "Let no one deceive you in any way. For it will not be, unless THE DEPARTURE COMES FIRST, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction" (SECOND), he who opposes and exalts himself against all that is called God or that is worshiped; so that he sits as God in the temple of God, setting himself up as God. Don't you remember that, when I was still with you, I told you these things? NOW YOU KNOW WHAT IS RESTRAINING HIM (THE HOLY SPIRIT IN BELIEVERS), TO THE END THAT HE MAY BE REVEALED IN HIS OWN SEASON (THE TRIBULATION). For the mystery of lawlessness already works. Only there is ONE WHO RESTRAINS NOW, UNTIL HE IS TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY (AT THE RAPTURE) . Then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will kill with the breath of his mouth, and destroy by the manifestation of his coming; even he whose coming is according to the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders".
II Thess 2:3 (Wycliffe New Testament) says, "[That] No man deceive you in any manner. For but dissension come first [For no but DEPARTING AWAY, or dissension, SHALL COME FIRST], and the man of sin be showed, the son of perdition" (SECOND). The False Prophet will be revealed at the beginning of the Seventieth Week of Daniel, when he strengthens the covenant of Dan. 9:17.
> > What they are actually saying then is this:
> > "The Rapture cannot take place until the Rapture takes place".
II Thess. 2:3 means that the great and terrible Day of the Lord (which is the Day of God's Wrath) will not come until after the Pre-Trib Rapture (Rev. 4:1) has taken place.There will be a second Rapture, and I think it will be on the Day of God's Wrath. The Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Tribulation saints (Rev. 7:14) will take place before noon on the Day of God's Wrath (Rev. 6:17; 7:9,14). The asteroids of Rev. 8:8,10 will impact Earth at noon (Zeph. 2:3-5).I'm hoping for the first Rapture on Hanukkah. See the top article on my Home Page.Agape, Marilyn Agee