John B (24 Nov 2011)
"RE:Soon"


Soon,
 
As God knows every hair on your head he also knows the lineage of every Jewish tribe from their origins until the present time. The family tree (so to speak) of all the twelve tribes from their inception until the present. They have specific DNA and God made a covenant with them first and it appears He will harvest 12,000 virgins from every one of these twelve tribes to be His first fruits and to be His personal entourage with His name written on their foreheads. In my opion He will choose the "cream of the crop" from all of the recorded Jewish history.
 
You asked if it was possible that the 144k were composed of youth from both Jews and gentiles. My answer would be no, in that God was very specific in the description of these 144k in Rev.7:5-8 as being specifically from the twelve "Jewish" tribes and highlighted this by listing all twelve by name. As I mentioned in my prior article, considering the limited number of Jews present today on the planet and the moral climate we live in, it seems like a stretch that we could find 12k virgins from all of the twelve tribes listed in Revelation 7. That's why I believe that at the rapture not only are the Christ believing gentiles and messianic Jews resurrected from their graves but also the non messianic Jews (as per Ezek.37).  And God will have had centuries of Jews to pick His entourage of 144k as His first fruits. No doubt some of His picks will be from those who are alive today.
 
You mentioned that we (gentiles) were grafted into God's tree (so to speak) when we accepted Jesus Christ and imply that somehow that makes us Jews. I disagree. Just like you can graft different varieties of apples onto a host tree it doesn't mean they loose their individual characteristics. They maintain their individual attributes and both receive their sustenance from the host tree and its roots. In like manner, we as Gentiles in accepted Jesus Christ were grafted into God's tree along with the Jews that were already there. Now this gave (we) the gentiles a path to salvation that we never had.  But again, we are separate and distinct from the Jews.
 
Actually there are four distinct groups to acknowledge (and three separate outcomes but that's a story for another day)
1) The original and present Jews who had and have a unique, special and separate covenant relationship with God and as per Ezek.37 will be resurrected and maintain said covenant forevermore.
2) Messianic Jews. These include Paul and the most of the apostles, many or most of the original church (for centuries) and the messianic Jewish converts of the latter years.
3) Gentiles (all non Jews) who have accepted Jesus Christ as their personal savior
4) Gentiles who have not accepted Jesus Christ
 
Hope this answers some of your questions..........it's an abbreviated version of a long and complex story
Blessings........John B
 
 
 
Soon (22 Nov 2011)
"Reply to:  John B - 144 thousand virgin Jews"


 
Hi John B, I enjoyed reading your interpretation regarding four winds, etc.  http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/nov2011/johnb1121-2.htm
 Have you considered that the 144, 000 virgin Jews are youth who are an endtime army which have not had any relations with the opposite sex because they are 12 - 19 years old but have received Jesus Christ as Lord (Messianic jewish youth and gentile youth).  Many prophecies regarding the youth have been given.  Also,  I would consider this interpretation that they are not all "jews" by man's interpretation but use the Word to interpret who is a Jew. 
 
 
 
Romans 2:28-29 (KJV)
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
 
We have been grafted in when we accept Jesus Christ, the Lion of Judah/where the name "Jews" comes from ...not all people from / or born Israelites are called Jews, Judah and Israel were two different kingdoms at one time and the two sticks coming together shows the distinction of the two kingdoms.   Believers in Jesus (tribe of Judah) are now in His lineage,  therefore; by circumcision of our heart aren't we now called Jews. 
 
Ezekiel 37:15-18 (KJV)
15 The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying,
16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.


 
 
To the church in Smyrna:
Revelation 2:9 (KJV)
9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

To the church in Philadelphia:
Revelation 3:9-10 (KJV)
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

I would like to hear responses to my interpretation of this from anyone here on the Five Doves.  I'm still tr