Hello, John and Doves,Consider this, that the AC has been revealed, and he is one of us.Since there have been many antichrists, the rapture could have happened at any time--except thatthe exact length of the Church Age is encoded somewhere in Scripture.Here we are, awaiting the imminent return of Christ for His Church.He is sovereign. When He comes for us, He will explain it all on the way up [see ST:TWOK, for trekkers].In HaShem,Mike C.
Marilyn Agee (15 Nov 2010)
"Bruce Warner: SCRIPTURE SAYS THAT 'ONE LAST THING' MUST HAPPEN BEFORE THE RAPTURE CAN OCCUR......"
From: Marilyn AgeeRe: Bruce Warner: SCRIPTURE SAYS THAT 'ONE LAST THING' MUST HAPPEN BEFORE THE RAPTURE CAN OCCUR.....Hi:> > "THAT DAY (of rapture) WILL NOT COME" UNTIL THE MAN OF SIN IS REVEALEDThe False Prophet is to be revealed Mid-Trib. I am convinced that the Rapture, which is our DEPARTING, comes before that. Only when we are gone can the man of sin be revealed. Until then, the Holy Spirit restrains him.We must be gone before Mid-Trib, hopefully at the beginning of this coming Hanukkah, December 1 (Hanukkah Eve), 2 or 3, 2010. According the Haggai 2, the Lord will bless us from Kislev 24 on. That will be Hanukkah Eve. The lamps of the wise virgins are lit. The first day of Hanukkah is when they lighted the lamps in the Temple. The 40th day of rain in Noah's day will be December 3, by inclusive reckoning because it is a block of time. This year, Cheshvan has 30 days. In some years, it has 29 days.Hag 2:18-23 says, "Consider now from this day and upward, from the four and twentieth day of the ninth month, even from the day that the foundation (Jesus) of the LORD'S temple was laid, consider it. Hag 2:19 Is the seed (Jesus) yet in the barn? (a saying meaning is she pregnant) yea (therefore Kislev 24 was the day Jesus was conceived), as yet the vine (Jesus), and the fig tree (Israel), and the pomegranate, and the olive tree (Gentiles), hath not brought forth: from this day will I bless you. Hag 2:20 And again the word of the LORD came unto Haggai in the four and twentieth day of the month, saying, Hag 2:21 Speak to Zerubbabel, governor of Judah, saying, I will shake the heavens and the earth; Hag 2:22 And I will overthrow the throne of kingdoms, and I will destroy the strength of the kingdoms of the heathen; and I will overthrow the chariots, and those that ride in them; and the horses and their riders shall come down, every one by the sword of his brother. Hag 2:23 In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, will I take thee, O Zerubbabel, my servant, the son of Shealtiel, saith the LORD, and will make thee as a signet: for I have chosen thee, saith the LORD of hosts."Early Bibles translated "he apostasia" in 2 Thess. 2 as departing. The KJV got it wrong and many modern Bibles have followed suit. However, there is another problem in this passage in the early Bibles, including the KJV. The "day of Christ" should be the "day of the Lord." After the KJV was published, older manuscripts were found that had "day of the Lord." That has been corrected in some later versions.The Day of Christ is the Rapture. The Day of the Lord is the Day of God's Wrath at the end of the Tribulation.Here are some of the old Bible translations that translated "he apostasia" as the departing.2Th 2:1-8 in the Geneva Bible (1560) says, "Nowe we beseech you, brethren (believers), by the comming of our Lord Iesus Christ (at the Rapture), and by OUR ASSEMBLING VNTO HIM (at the Rapture), 2 That ye be not suddenly mooued from your minde, nor troubled neither by spirit, nor by worde, nor by letter, as it were from vs, as though the day of Christ (should be day of the Lord, they wouldn't have worried if the day of Christ was near) were at hand. 3 Let no man deceiue you by any meanes: for that day (day of the Lord) shall NOT COME, except there come a DEPARTING (i.e., the Rapture) FIRST, and that that man of sinne be disclosed, euen the sonne of perdition (THE SATAN POSSESSED FALSE PROPHET), 4 Which is an aduersarie, and exalteth him selfe against all that is called God, or that is worshipped: so that he doeth sit as God in the Temple of God, shewing him selfe that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that when I was yet with you, I tolde you these things? 6 And nowe ye knowe what withholdeth (the Holy Spirit holds back the appearing of the man of sin until the Rapture has taken place) that he might be reueiled in his time (the shortened last half of the Tribulation). 7 For the mysterie of iniquitie doeth already worke: onely he (the Holy Spirit) which nowe WITHHOLDETH, shall let (Old English for restrain) till he be taken out of the way (at the Rapture). 8 And THEN (after the Rapture) SHALL THAT WICKED MAN BE REVEILED, whome the Lorde shall consume with the Spirit of his mouth, and shall abolish with the brightnes of his comming" (i.e., at the Second Advent).2Th 2:1-8 in the Tyndale Bible (1525/26) says,
1 Thess 2:1 "We beseche you brethren by the commynge of oure lorde Iesu Christ and in that WE SHALL ASSEMBLE UNTO HIM (at the Rapture)
2 that ye be not sodely moved from youre mynde and be not troubled nether by sprete nether by wordes nor yet by letter which shuld seme to come from vs as though the daye of Christ (should be Day of the Lord) were at honde.
3 Let no ma deceave you by eny meanes for the lorde commeth not excepte ther come a DEPARTYNGE FYRST and that that synfnll man be opened ye sonne of perdicion
4 which is an adversarie and is exalted above all that is called god or that is worshipped: so that he shall sitt as God in temple of god and shew him silfe as god.
5 Remember ye not that when I was yet with you I tolde you these thynges?
6 And nowe ye knowe what with holdeth: even that he myght be vttered at his tyme.
7 For the mistery of that iniquitie doeth he all readie worke which onlie loketh vntill it be taken out of ye waye.
8 And then shall that wicked be vttered whom the lorde shall consume with the sprete of hys mouth and shall destroye with the apearaunce of his commynge".2Th 2:1-8 in the Coverdale Bible (1535) says, 2Th 2:1 "We beseke you brethren by the commynge of or LORDE Iesus Christ, and in that WE SHAL ASSEMBLE VNTO HIM (i.e., at the Rapture),
2Th 2:2 that ye be not sodenly moued fro youre mynde, and be not troubled, nether by sprete, nether by wordes, ner yet by letter, which shulde seme to be sent from vs, as though ye daye of Christ were at hande.
2Th 2:3 Let noman disceaue you by eny meanes. For the LORDE commeth not, excepte the DEPARTYNGE COME FIRST, and that that Man of synne be opened, euen the sonne of perdicion,
2Th 2:4 which is an aduersary, and is exalted aboue all yt is called God or Gods seruyce, so that he sytteth as God in the temple of God, and boasteth himselfe to be God.
2Th 2:5 Remembre ye not, that whan I was yet with you, I tolde you these thinges?
2Th 2:6 And now ye knowe what witholdeth it, eue that it mighte be vttered at his tyme.
2Th 2:7 (For the mystery of the iniquyte worketh allready, tyll he which now onely letteth, be take out of the waye.)
2Th 2:8 And then shal that wicked be vttered, whom the LORDE shal cosume with ye sprete of his mouth, & shal destroye with the appearaunce of his commynge:"2Th 2:1-8 in Cranmer's Bible (The Great Bible) (1539) says,
"We beseke you brethren by the commynge of or LORDE Iesus Christ, and in that we shal assemble vnto him, that ye be not sodenly moued fro youre mynde, and be not troubled, nether by sprete, nether by wordes, ner yet by letter, which shulde seme to be sent from vs, as though ye daye of Christ (should be day of the Lord) were at hande. Let noman disceaue you by eny meanes. For the LORDE commeth not, excepte the DEPARTYNGE COME FIRST, and that that Man of synne be opened, euen the sonne of perdicion, which is an aduersary, and is exalted aboue all yt is called God or Gods seruyce, so that he sytteth as God in the temple of God, and boasteth himselfe to be God. Remembre ye not, that whan I was yet with you, I tolde you these thinges? And now ye knowe what witholdeth it, eue that it mighte be vttered at his tyme. (For the mystery of the iniquyte worketh allready, tyll he (the Holy Spirit) which now onely letteth, be take out of the waye [i.e., at the time of the Rapture].) And then shal that wicked be vttered, whom the LORDE shal cosume with ye sprete of his mouth, & shal destroye with the appearaunce of his commynge".Thomas Ice can explain this better than I can. Here is what he wrote.
(By Thomas Ice)http://focusonjerusalem.com/istherapturein2Thessalonians.htm
"I believe that there exists a strong possibility that 2nd Thessalonians 2:3 is speaking about the Rapture. What do I mean? Some pretribulationists, like myself believe that the Greek noun apostasia, usually translated “apostasy,” is a reference to the Rapture and should be translated “departure.” Thus, this passage would be saying that the day of the Lord will not come until the Rapture first takes place. If apostasia is a reference to a physical departure, then 2nd Thessalonians 2:3 supports strong evidence for pretribulationism.
"THE MEANING OF APOSTASIA
"The Greek noun apostasia is only used twice in the New Testament. In addition to 2nd Thessalonians 2:3, it occurs in Acts 21:21 where, speaking of Paul, it is said, “that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake (apostasia) Moses.” The word is a Greek compound of apo, or “from” and istemi, or “stand.” Thus, it has the core meaning of “away from” or “departure.”
Liddell and Scott’s “A Greek English Lexicon” defines apostasia first as “defection, revolt”; then secondly as “departure, or disappearance.” Gordon Lewis explains how the verb from which the noun apostasia is derived supports the basic meaning of departure in the following:
"The verb may mean to remove spatially. There is little reason then to deny that the noun can mean such a spatial removal or departure. Since the noun is used only one other time in the New Testament of apostasy from Moses (Acts 21:21), we can hardly conclude that its biblical meaning is necessarily determined. The verb is used fifteen times in the New Testament. Of these fifteen, only three have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke 8:13; 1st Timothy 4:1; Hebrews 3:12).The word is used for departing from iniquity (2nd Timothy 2:19), from ungodly men (1st Timothy 6:5), from the Temple (Luke 2:27), from the body (2nd Corinthians 12:8), and from persons (Acts 12:10; Luke 4:13). “It is with full assurance of proper exegetical study and with complete confidence in the original languages,” concludes Daniel Davey, “that the word meaning of apostasia is defined as departure.” Paul Lee Tan adds the following:
"What precisely does Paul mean when he says that “the falling away” (2:3) must come before the Tribulation? The definite article “the” denotes that this will be a definite event, an event distinct from the appearance of the Man of Sin. The Greek word for “falling away,” taken by itself, does not mean religious apostasy or defection. Neither does the word mean “to fall,” as the Greeks have another word for that [pipto, I fall; TDI]. The best translation of the word is “to depart.” The Apostle Paul refers here to a definite event which he calls “the departure,” and which will occur just before the start of the Tribulation. This is the Rapture of the Church. So the word has the core meaning of “departure” and it depends upon the context to determine whether it is used to mean physical departure or an abstract departure such as a departure from the faith.
"The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either departure” or “departing.” They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608). This supports the notion that the word truly means “departure.” In fact, Jerome’s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of AD 400 renders apostasia with the word discessio, meaning “departure.” Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of “departure”? Theodore Beza, the Swiss reformer was the first to transliterate apostasia and create a new word rather than translate it as others had done. The translators of the King James Version were the first to introduce the new rendering of apostasia as “falling away.” Most English translators have followed the KJV and Beza in departing from translating apostasia as “departure.” No good reason was ever given."
"THAT DAY (of rapture) WILL NOT COME" UNTIL THE MAN OF SIN IS REVEALED SO THAT HE SITS AS GOD IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD IN JERUSALEM,ISRAEL SHOWING HIMSELF THAT HE IS GOD. This has not yet happened so the rapture cannot yet occur.
2 Thessalonians 2:1-4
"Now, brethern, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our GATHERING TOGETHER TO HIM, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the Day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for THAT DAY WILL NOT COME unless the falling away come first, AND THE MAN OF SIN IS REVEALED, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshipped, so that HE SITS AS GOD IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD, SHOWING HIMSELF THAT HE IS GOD."
This Scripture sets the 'rule for the revealing' of the anti-Christ, not anyone else! We can theorize all we want as to the identity of the anti-Christ, and we may be correct, but he must SIT AS GOD IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD, SHOWING HIMSELF TO BE GOD BEFORE THAT DAY CAN COME, according to the Scripture.
Come Lord Jesus!