Lyle Cooper (12 Nov 2010)
"Donna Cothran (11 Nov 2010)"
Re: Donna Cothran (11 Nov 2010)
Who are those under the altar? What is the 5th seal all about?
To get the correct answer, we must back up to the first seal,
and get the seals IN CONTEXT.
What is the context of the first seal? It is the vision of
the throne room. God reveals the timing in this vision, if
we read it carefully. First, this vision was seen by John around
95 AD. Look at these verses:
The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly
into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus
standing on the right hand of God,
Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead,
and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are
above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image
of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his
power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on
the right hand of the Majesty on high:
Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We
have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of
the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for
ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
We see from these scriptures (there are several more) that when
Jesus ascended, He went to be at the Father's right hand. In
fact, Stephen SAW Him there.
Yet, when John saw the vison of the throne room, in chapter 4, JESUS
WAS NOT THERE AT ALL, much less at the Father's right
hand? WHY was Jesus not there?
Next, we see a search was made for one worthy to break the
seals, and John got to see that search. John saw that the search
ENDED and it ended in failure, for John wept and wrote that NO
MAN WAS FOUND. If we read ahead, we find out WHO could
Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying,
Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals
thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by
thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and
We see then, that ONLY the Redeemer could be worthy to break
Yet in a search that John watched, (in a vision) in 95 AD, NO
MAN WAS FOUND. Why?
If we keep reading, we see that the Holy Spirit was there IN the
5And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings
and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before
the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
Yes, Jesus said, when He went up He would send the Holy Spirit
7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you
that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not
come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you
So we must ask, WHY is the Holy Spirit here?
Now we have three questions:
1) Why was Jesus not seen at the right hand of the Father?
2) Why was "no man found?"
3) Why was the Holy Spirit seen in the throne room?
The answer to these questions is TIMING. In this vision God is
showing John TIMING and the movement of time. For example, John
watched as the search for one worthy was done: first in heaven,
then on earth, then under the earth. That shows the movement of
When John first saw the throne, Jesus was NOT THERE. But later,
AFTER John watched this search that ended in failure, and
another search started, suddenly SOMEONE WAS FOUND.
John looked and suddenly that was SOMEONE NEW in the throne
room: a lamb, having been slain.
John saw the very moment that Jesus ascended into heaven,
after telling Mary not to touch Him, for He had not yet
ascended. This explains why Jesus was not seen at the right hand
of the Father: He was on the earth, perhaps in the grave. This
explains why "no man was found." He had not yet risen and had
not yet become the Redeemer. In other words, John was seeing
a vision of the PAST! A vision of about 33 AD. And it
explains why the Holy Spirit was there: Jesus had not yet
Then, after John saw Jesus arrive in the throne room, having
just risen from the dead, Jesus went straight over to the Father
and got the scroll! There are NO 2000 years there to be found.
The moment Jesus got the scroll into His hands, He began to
break the seals.
So if we understand the context of the first seal, it was
broken about 33 AD. In fact, all the first 5 seals were
broken one after another in 33 AD. There is NO HINT of a delay
between seals, UNTIL we get to seal number 5: the martyrs of the
church age. Stephen was one of the first martyrs there.
They cried out, HOW LONG before they could be avenged.
Question: if they had only to wait 7 years, why cry out how
long? But, if they had to wait 2000 years, then indeed, their
question is very understandable. And they were told that they
So here is the first hint of a wait in the breaking of the
seals. HOW LONG must they wait? Until the final (last)
martyr of the church age. What will make this happen? Of course,
the END of the church age. That will happen with the rapture
of the church. The rapture will take place as the first
event of the 6th seal, which we see is the VERY NEXT EVENT John
9And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar
the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for
the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O
Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood
on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it
was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little
season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren,
that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal,
We see NO HINT that these were killed by the Beast. In fact,
John as NOT YET even opened the 70th week much less got to the
mid point of the week, when the Beast is made manifest.
So it is very plain and simple: these are martyrs of the church
age, NOT people killed by the Beast.
You were MIXING UP two stories: those under the alter and the
great crowd - too large to number - seen in chapter 7.
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no
man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people,
and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb,
clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God
which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
These are NOT MARTYRS. There is not one hint that they were
murdered or martyred. Rather, they have been RAPTURED.
They are not under the altar, they are in front of the throne!!
So a careful study will prove that these are TWO DIFFERENT
groups of people. Those under the altar are the martyrs of the
church age. People are being added to this group on a daily