Blessings Brother John,

 

John (You) stated:

"BTW.. John Clark, the Holy Spirit was present in the earth before the church was created on the day of Pentecost, and will remain after the church is raptured. :)"

 

My response:

Actually, that was one of my main points. The Holy Spirit is not the "restrainer," it would be out of His character. And the Holy Spirit remains after the church is "raptured." By the way, I never mentioned that the Holy Spirit wasn't present before the church. I have no idea why you thought differently.:). Maybe you should read my following! post. I included some Old Testament scriptures, but could have added more. I thought 60 - 70 versus was enough for people to understand the workings of the Holy Spirit..

 

RE; WES K

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/nov2005/johnc1116.htm

 

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John stated:

"I do however agree with your letter with regards to John Clark calling the Holy Spirit a gentle dove pertaining to its ability to combat evil. I think John hasn't fully comprehended the awesome power that the body of Christ possesses here in the earth during this dispensation of grace. "

 

" Upon this ROCK I will build my church and the very gates of hell shall! not prevail against it"

 

My response:

I think I comprehend a little more than you perceive. :) The foundation "Rock" that the church is built upon is the confession that Jesus "art the Christ, the Son of the living God." Now, the gates of hell will not prevail against the church.

 

katischuo (Strong's 2729)

 

1) to be strong to another's detriment, to prevail against

2) to be superior in strength

3) to overcome

4) to prevail

 

You must be confused. The point that you are making from this scripture is that hell is not as strong as the church. I agree, but what does that have to do with the Holy Spirit restraining the antichrist? Arnold Schwarzenegger is " superior in strength" to Woody Allen. That does not! mean that Arnold is restraining Woody. What I am saying is that within the scriptures the Holy Spirit does not take a strong dominating role over people. Now the Father has other ways to impose his will, but the Holy Spirit is not utilized in this manner. Ananias might have died because he lied to the Holy Spirit, but that does not mean that the Holy Spirit killed him. The scriptures show a gentle Holy Spirit, and not an "enforcer." The Holy Spirit is associated with fire, but this fire never causes anybody harm. Just because fire is called down from the sky (from God), does not mean that this fire is the Holy Spirit.

 

Luk 9:53 And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem.

 

Luk 9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw [this], they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from h! eaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?

 

Luk 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

 

Luk 9:56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save [them]. And they went to another village.

 

Jesus was led and full of the Holy Spirit. James and John were being "led" by a different spirit.

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By the way, I think I do comprehend the awesome power of the church and her greater potential. I was "very active" during the "Jesus movement," and ministered with many "celebrities." (Such as: Catherine Kuhlman, Oral Roberts, Hal Lindsay, and many others.). But if you truly want "awesome" I have to say Corey Ten Boom would fit the bill..

&nbs! p;

Shalom, John