Barry Amundsen (28 May 2012)
"Sandra Jean, Lazarus and born again"


 
Sandra Jean,
 
I think you ask a very interesting question:
________________________________________
So it got me to thinking. This is something I've always wondered about. What did the poor man do to receive eternity in paradise? Especially since Jesus said to Nicodemus that "except a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3). And is the Book of Remembrance different from the Book of Life? Would very much appreciate your thoughts.
__________________________________________________________
 
I have also wondered about this and would like to offer just my own thoughts for consideration. I learned long ago that when Jesus used that phrase "born again" to Nicodemus the first time he was not using it the way we today use it, though he would use it that way in just a moment later. But when Jesus first used that he was using what was then a modern colloquialism of that day that Nicodemus would have been familiar with because it just meant to completely change your mind about a thing. As a Pharisee Nic would have been employed with the task of "proselytizing" outsiders into the Jewish faith and to come from the paganism of other cultures into the single God of Judaism, one would have to leave completely all that their previous faith taught about God. So they had this phrase that you must be "born again" in order to accept this new understanding about God. This was the same phrase that Jesus used on Nicodemus when he first said it and it is what caused Nic to ask "How can a man who is old do that?" In other words, I have believed certain things about what the messiah will be like and do and Jesus does not fit the description that I am looking for and yet he does seem to come from God for no man could do what he does accept God were with him... Jesus was telling Nic that in just the same way that a pagan would need to completely leave all that he has previously believed about a pantheon of gods etc. and accept that there is but one God over it all, so now Nic must completely drop all that he has learned concerning who the messiah will be and what he has come to do this first time because it is all wrong etc. So that is what born again meant though as I said,  Jesus would also use it again the way we use it speaking of a spiritual new birth a moment later.
 
My point is this: I think modern Christians have made a little too much of that phrase and turned it into a magical rite of passage that I don't think the word of God really gives it. It is this very issue that I believe has given rise to much of the error of the "once saved always saved" position because of the way they like to say that once someone is "born again" they cannot ever be unborn so no matter what happens after that they cannot lose their salvation etc.
 
So, to apply this to your point about the poor man Lazarus, there is no mention anywhere that this man had anything going for him other than being terribly poor. Likewise there is no qualifying characteristic about the nature of the rich man to cause him to be sent to eternal torment except that he showed no mercy to the poor man and that he fared sumptuously every day. Abraham simply states that he had his good things in his earthly life while Lazarus had evil things and now that was reversed. No mention of either one of them's belief or lack thereof in God. There are then many other similar examples in the scriptures where God seems to reward people or condemn them apart from their direct beliefs about God. For example the sheep and goats judgment of the nations, Jesus extends an invitation into heaven to the sheep for merely showing kindness to one of the least of these my brethren as though they showed it to him directly but when they on the left failed to show that kindness they are delivered to torments for failing to show that kindness. No mention there at all of whether anyone among them were ever "born again" or not. Then what about the lame, halt, blind, poor, and homeless in the highways and hedges that are compelled to come in at the last moment to take the place of the ones who were first invited but chose not to come in when it was time to? Were those first invited ones "born again"? Never says. Almost as though that is not the issue.
 
Here's what I think about all of this: I think that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, unlike the "five points of Calvinism" that says he only died for the sins of the elect (that is what the "L" in T-U-L-I-P stands for "limited atonement".) Once Jesus paid the price for the whole world he could legally bring every single person that has ever been born from Adam to today right into heaven if he wanted to and the devil could not say anything about it. But he has chosen to bring in those who want to come and are willing to confess him and share in his suffering in this world and learn to love him and trust him. But I think God is very loving and caring and is looking for any possible way to bring in people and I believe that there may be some who get in that God just decides to bring because he can. Paul in talking about the law in Romans touched on this in discussing someone who never heard the gospel but knows inwardly what God is looking for and they can seek after God and find him though he be not far from any one of us etc. I know that the gospel must be preached and that it says how can they know unless someone tells them etc. But I think that the magic status of being "born again" has been blown out of proportion in many modern doctrines and many ministries just try and get someone to do that and that's it. I think how we behave towards God and one another is going to matter and whether we have been "born again" the way modern doctrines teach it will not hardly enter into it the magic way that many have been led to believe. This teaching in my opinion is what gives rise to the kinds of things that Jesus says many will say to him on that day about doing many wonderful works in his name and being good Christians but they didn't have Him actually in their lives and he did not know them and he calls them workers of iniquity.
 
I know I will probably start another firestorm with this but it's just my opinion that the "born again" idea might be other than many have thought it was in both directions as a guarantee of entrance or a barrier against entrance. One more quick example. Jesus was speaking to believers when he said if you will not forgive your fellow servant his debt then God will not forgive you your debt. He never mentions that this only applies to someone who is not born again. In fact in the parable the servant had already been forgiven his enormous debt but his debt was re-instated again after he would not forgive his fellow servant. This simply cannot happen in the modern born again magic scenario. God is free to do with us as he pleases. That's my opinion, thanks for asking.