Bill Griese (14 March 2013)
"Reply to Jovial"


Reply to Jovial 

"False Trib / AC"  http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/march2013/jovial313-2.htm

You wrote: "One thing we know about the REAL FM / AC is that he will not acknowledge ANY G-d as a higher power since "Neither shall he regard the gods of his fathers...nor any god...for he shall magnify himself above all. " (Dan 11:37).  He won't pretend to be a Christian.  He won't pretend to be a Muslim.  He wno't pretend to believe there is a higher power above him.  He will try to convince the world he is THE G-d, and he could not do that if he EVER, at ANY moment in his life, recognized a higher power than himself.  Such a recognition would be an admission he is not an omniscent being.  The real FM may sell that in a way modern populace will accept, such as claiming to be the reincarnation of Yeshua, and the reincarnation of Buddha, etc......but he will NEVER pretend to belong to a religion that recognizes a power higher than him."

1.) You are quoting Daniel 11:37 out of context, and drawing conclusions that are not supported by verses 38 and 39.

Daniel 11:36-39 KJV "And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. 37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. 38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things. 39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge [and] increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain."

2.) These verses have been previously fulfilled by Herod the Great
Excerpt from "Daniel 11 - Prophecy Fulfilled" by Bryan Huie

DANIEL 11:36 "And the king shall do as he wills. He shall exalt himself and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak astonishing things against the God of gods. He shall prosper till the indignation is accomplished; for what is decreed shall be done." (ESV)

In this verse, the king being spoken of changes. Starting in verse 21, Antiochus IV Epiphanes was the referenced king. Verses 32 through 35 prophesy his defeat by the Maccabees (the Hasmoneans) and encompass the subsequent fall of their dynasty. But the context shows that the remaining verses in this chapter cannot apply to Antiochus IV.

Most Christian scholars try to insert a huge chronological gap in the prophecy here, making the rest of it apply not to the antetype Antiochus IV, but to the end-time type, the Antichrist. But staying in the time sequence context earlier alluded to by Gabriel (Dan. 11:1), what should we expect to see next in this prophecy? Was there a king who ruled Israel after the end of the Hasmonean era?

What appears to have caused scholars to stray away from the correct understanding at this point of the prophecy is that they were unable to find a successor to Antiochus IV who matched the description of "the king." But two points must be kept in mind in order to properly understand this prophecy. The subject is the Seleucid or Ptolemaic dynasties ONLY as these kingdoms affected Daniel's people. Therefore, the expression "the king," without any other description, could certainly mean one who was king over Israel. Secondly, the immediately preceding verses (Dan. 11:32-35) refer to the Jews and their situation during and after the Maccabean revolt. Based on the history of this period, we should look for the fulfillment of this verse by a "king" other than Antiochus IV or the Hasmonean rulers.

Both secular history and the New Testament record the acts of a king who appeared on the scene in Israel at the end of the Hasmonean period. As we shall see, this king fulfilled every prophetic description given in verses 36 through 39. That king was Herod the Great. In verse 36, the one spoken of is not identified as either the king of the North or the king of the South, but simply as "the king." Herod was seated as king on the throne of Israel when Messiah Yeshua was born. He is the called "the king" in the Gospels (Matt. 2:1, 3, 9; Luke 1:5). He, like Antiochus IV before him, was an antetype of the coming Antichrist, as his actions revealed. Let's look at the specific points in the prophecy and see how Herod fulfilled them.

"The King Shall Do According to His Own Will"

The first thing said of this king is that he would "do according to his own will." While most take this to mean that the king would do as he pleased, it is instructive to see how this phrase is used elsewhere in the prophecy. In Daniel 11:3, we see that it is said of Alexander the Great that he would "do according to his will." Similar words are used of Antiochus the Great in Daniel 11:16. This means more than simply a strong-willed ruler who did things his own way. Both of these rulers (Alexander and Antiochus III) were exceptionally successful in achieving their goals.

Success in achieving and maintaining power also defined Herod the Great. History shows that Herod was an Idumean (the Edomites were forcibly converted to Judaism under the Hasmonean ruler John Hyrcanus about 130 BCE). His father Antipater II, a friend and advisor of Hasmonean ruler Hyrcanus II, was made procurator of Judea by Julius Caesar. In that position, Antipater II made Herod the governor of Galilee at the age of 25 in 47 BCE. Herod ingratiated himself with Rome following the assassination of Julius Caesar and eventually married Mariamne, a granddaughter of Hyrcanus II (even though he was already married with a young son). Due to a recommendation by Hyrcanus II (as well as a bribe paid to Roman ruler Mark Antony), Herod was appointed as a tetrarch over Judea in 41 BCE.

Shortly thereafter, the Parthians overran Judea in 40 BCE and installed Antigonus, the Hasmonean brother of Hyrcanus II, as king. Herod fled and eventually came to Rome, where he was appointed king of Judea by Gaius Octavius (the grandnephew of Julius Caesar) and Mark Antony. He left Rome with an army and by 37 BCE had captured Judea and deposed Antigonus. He bribed Antony to have Antigonus killed, lest his claims to the Judean throne be found to be more legitimate than Herod's own. All in all, Herod's rise to power showed that he was very successful at doing "according to his own will."

Viewing the expression in the sense of doing as he pleased, history shows that Herod was ruthless and cruel in doing his own will. He did not hesitate to murder those he considered to be threats to his rule, including Hyrcanus II and almost the entire Hasmonean line. Even those closest to him, his own family, were not safe. Herod had his beloved wife, Mariamne, executed on a trumped-up charge of adultery, as well as three of his own sons because he suspected them of conspiring to take his throne. These and other deeds of evil willfulness characterized his entire reign.

"He Shall Exalt and Magnify Himself Above Every God"

The text also states that the king "shall exalt and magnify himself above every god." The word "god" here is the Hebrew 'el. The Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament says that "the primary meanings of this root as used in Scripture are 'god' (pagan or false gods) 'God' (the true God of Israel) and less frequently, 'the mighty' (referring to men or angels)." It is clear that Herod exalted and magnified himself above every "mighty one" in Israel, whether priests or rulers. He appointed whomever he chose to the sacred office of high priest. However, because he owed true allegiance only to himself in his lust for absolute power, Herod truthfully could be said to have exalted and magnified himself above all other gods (including the God of Israel, whose will he attempted to thwart by destroying the promised Messiah).

"He Shall Speak Astonishing Things Against the God of Gods"

The Hebrew word niphla'ot, rendered "blasphemies" in some translations, actually means "marvelous" (if used in a positive sense) or "astonishing" (in a negative sense). This charge against Herod primarily refers to his command to slaughter the male babies of Bethlehem. This was done for the express purpose of destroying the coming Messiah (Matt. 2:4), the one God had promised to send to be king over His people Israel. Herod chose to act directly against God's will in this way to ensure that his throne would not be taken over by the rightful heir, Messiah the Son of David. We shall look at this action more later.

DANIEL 11:37 "He shall regard neither the God of his fathers nor the desire of women, nor regard any god; for he shall exalt himself above them all." (NKJV)

"He Shall Regard Neither the God of His Fathers... Nor Regard Any God"

Even though Herod was an Idumean (a descendant of Esau), his family had converted to Judaism in the 2nd century BCE. Therefore, Herod was generally regarded as a Jew. In fact, when addressing the Jewish people, Herod customarily used the expression "our fathers" to emphasize his genealogical ties to the patriarchs. Yet Herod promoted Greek and Roman gods and built the port city of Caesarea (named after the Roman emperor Caesar Augustus), which became a symbol in Jewish eyes of everything pagan. In Caesarea, Herod built a huge temple dedicated to the worship of Caesar Augustus, the Roman emperor/god. Additionally, he built temples dedicated to Augustus in Sebaste (the rebuilt city of Samaria) and Panias (a city long associated with the worship of the pagan god Pan). He also supported the restoration of the temple of Pythian Apollo on the Greek island of Rhodes, participated in the building of the temple to Ba'al Shamim at Si'a, and contributed to temples in Tyre and Sidon. Herod extensively remodeled the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem, but then placed a huge golden Roman eagle at the main entrance, which religious Jews saw as a blasphemous idol. A group of Torah students destroyed this emblem of idolatry, earning themselves the fate of being burned alive by Herod. Herod's regard was for the benefits that he could achieve by supporting various gods; his religion was one of expedience, not conviction. He exalted himself above all the gods.

"The Desire of Women"

The phrase "the desire of women" has been variously understood. Some scholars have opined that, speaking of the end-time Antichrist, this indicates that he will have no desire for women. This is far from the intended meaning of this phrase, however. In Haggai 2:7, the Messiah is called "the desire of all nations." The exact same Hebrew word, chemdat, is used in that verse and Daniel 11:37. It was the hope of every religious Jewish woman that she might be the mother of the prophesied Messiah. Therefore, it was primarily the Messiah who was "the desire" of Jewish women.

Additionally, children in general are "the desire of women." The fact that Herod attempted to murder the infant Messiah by destroying numerous babies shows that he had no regard for the maternal nature of women. Each one of the slain infants was "the desire" of his own mother. Herod exalted himself above all by valuing holding onto his power and position above everyone and everything else, including the God of Israel.

DANIEL 11:38 "But in their place he shall honor a god of fortresses; and a god which his fathers did not know he shall honor with gold and silver, with precious stones and pleasant things." (NKJV)

Herod's actions in securing and holding on to power provide an impressive fulfillment of this verse. The phrase "god of forces," or "fortresses," is uncommon enough that it provides us a ready means of identification. The Roman emperors proclaimed themselves to be "gods," and it was by their military "forces" or "fortresses" that they enlarged and sustained their power and their empire. Herod was quick to honor the warring Roman rulers with tribute and building projects. He rebuilt many fortresses in the land and temples in surrounding Gentile areas, including three temples dedicated to Caesar Augustus. He rebuilt the ancient Phoenician coastal fort called Strato's Tower and renamed it Caesarea in honor of Caesar Augustus; he rebuilt Samaria, and renamed it Sebaste (sebastos was the Greek word for "reverend," equivalent to the Latin augustus). He built many other fortified cities and named them in honor of Caesar. Herod also introduced Greek-style games in honor of Caesar. He often sent delegations to Rome to deliver valuable gifts and money to show his respect to Caesar.

DANIEL 11:39 "Thus he shall act against the strongest fortresses with a foreign god, which he shall acknowledge, and advance its glory; and he shall cause them to rule over many, and divide the land for gain." (NKJV)

Verse 39 continues the subject from the previous verse. Using the support and backing of the Roman emperor, Herod was able to overcome all of his foes. In the process, he promoted the glory of the Romans in Judea to his own benefit. Herod gave land and authority to those who supported him in order to secure their allegiance. When viewed properly, we can see that every item foretold of "the king" in verses 36-39 was fulfilled in the reign of Herod.

Link: http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Daniel11

YBIC,

Bill Griese