John G and Kathryn...... ( If you don’t read this whole post....check out the PS at the bottom.....a head scratcher)
Thank you for your positive responses to my recent posts. It takes courage and much discernment to step forward in this age of great deception that Satan has the world in. I believe that God is very pleased that you two attested to what He has described and written in scripture concerning the layout of earth and the heavens above. Bless you both........
This is not the first time on the Doves site that you have had the courage to reply to me on what has proved to be a very controversial topic. On this occasion you spent what appears to be an appreciable amount of time (I appreciate that) listing some of your favorite and some contested scripture verses concerning what God has to say about the structure of the earth and the heavens. For reference....I am sure you know that there are well over a hundred scriptural descriptions that God gave us in the bible related to how He laid out the earth and the heavens above.
You are known on the Doves site as the guy who weekly questions (and wants answers) to many many verses of scripture. That's a wonderful trait to have..... that you would seek to be as enlightened as possible with God's word.......not only through your own research but also from the feedback of others. And you didn't disappoint this week......with more questions than answers. I will try to give you my discernment (for what it is worth) concerning some of the scripture verses that you questioned.
You quoted...and seemingly questioned.....
Job 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.
To me this verse by Job is another way of describing what God shared with us in Genesis. In Genesis it says God separated the waters from the waters using the firmament (Gen.1:6) which is a dome like structure that runs from horizon to horizon like a tent or the wall area inside a terrarium. From above the top center of this terrarium looking down a circle would be formed around the outside of this gigantic bowl / cheese dish / dome / terrarium / firmament. God then stood above this dome and looked down on the waters below the dome and commanded that dry land appear in the waters.....and it was so. That central point of the dome above the waters and now above the land masses He just created....... from any point on the outside perimeter of the circle....... would be north. It doesn't matter if you point a compass horizontal to the ground or at an angle upward....... from the perimeter of the circle it will always say north. God established north in the center of this dome not only at ground level but also at hundreds of miles above ground level when referenced from anywhere on the perimeter of the dome.
So when Job says that....”He stretcheth out the north over the empty place” that's exactly what I believe He did. He declared a position, a then empty place, in the top area / levels of this dome to be what He called north and then stretched it out like a pizza pie at the central area of the dome so that no matter where a person would / could be on the face of the earth, a magnetic compass will always point to this spot in the firmament that God declared as north.
And from this vantage point at the top of the dome that God calls north it would appear that the earth below was hanging or supported by nothing......as is also referenced from that verse in Job.....”and handeth the earth upon nothing”. God says that there are no hangers holding or supporting earth from above.....but He said that there are great foundations below the earth that support it.
If the sun, moon and stars are embedded in the firmament as God states and the firmament is hundreds of miles thick and I believe it is.....can you imagine the weight and down pressure of this firmament / this dome cover upon the earth. With that thought in mind how strong must the foundations of the earth be to support that amount of weight?? I believe God is really proud of how He formed His earth foundations. Didn't He ask Job.....”Where were you when I built the foundations of the earth?”Sounded to me like He was bragging just a little ☺
The next verse you quoted was this.....
Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
Again as I stated above........ when God sits at the central area of the dome way above the earth, this position which He calls north (north which spans hundreds of miles or more vertically as well) and looks down He sees a circle, like looking down to view the top of a terrarium. And what shape would that be.....a circle.....or as He stated.....the circle of the earth.
In the same verse God tries to make the description clearer by referring to this dome as like a curtain or a tent meaning that it is raised in the center, drapes down on all sides and intersects with something on the bottom at the perimeter of the circle.....like a dome tent would intersect the ground all the way around. And He said in Genesis and here in Isaiah 40 that He embedded the sun, moon, and stars into this firmament, this curtain......so that when one looks from horizon to horizon the celestial objects are embedded into this curtain / tent / firmament.
Also in this verse in Isaiah I believe God is trying to give us a heads up as to the approximate height of this “tent”, that is, from earth ground level upward to this solid / impenetrable firmament. He does this by saying that humans look like grasshoppers from that level. The level.... when He is sitting on top of the terrarium and looking down upon the earth below. If you want to know the distance from the earth to the firmament above, do the math. What is the size ratio of grasshoppers to men? 200 to 1 or 300 to 1? Whatever that ratio distance relationship is...... then I believe that that is where one would contact the under-surface of the dome / firmament. A hundred miles ?
Another verse you listed is......
Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Obviously you know that this verse is referring to Lucifer who wants to ascend into heaven. In Genesis 1:8 God tells us that heaven is in the firmament or is part of the firmament or is on a level of the firmament or is the firmament.
They always talk about heavens 1, 2 ans 3. Heavens 1 possibly being earth's atmosphere. Heavens 2 possibly being the firmament where the sun, moon and stars are embedded. And heavens 3 being at a level in the firmament above that, this appears to be what is described in Isaiah 14 a place being above “the stars of God” or at a level in the firmament that is above the celestial objects embedded there that we see in the sky here from earth.
From this verse in Isaiah we also learn that this level in the firmament is occupied by “The Mount of Congregation”. And we also learn that north is so big, it has sides......”in the sides of the north”
I described what my definition of north was in my text above.....that is, if a person was anywhere within the circle of the earth (outside or inside the dome)...... a magnetic compass then points to north.....not only at ground level but also angled upward. This seems to agree with scripture that north is not only a lateral direction but also an upward one as well and it (north) is so big that it has sides.....”in the sides of the north”. Gino, I just re-read what your thoughts were on north and it appears we are on the same page.
So is north also somehow synonymous with what is above us in the heavens.....I believe so.......that the whole top of the dome / firmament is north from God's perspective.
And there in heavens 3 we find “the mount of congregations” which as per Isaiah sets on “the sides of the north”. So then, what sets in “the center of the north”? Is it the throne room of God?
A little more information as to what might also be in this general location is described in the book of Habakkuk chapter 3. There we see an introduction for “The Day of the Lord” and a location as to where God the Father and Jesus are at that time. Verse 3 says that God the Father came from Teman and The Holy One (Jesus) came from Mount Paran. Could these locations be in the center of the heavenly north ? My belief is yes.
And Gino you mentioned the travel of the sun in your text but I don't believe you mentioned the reference to the sun that also just happens to show up in this chapter 3 of Habakkuk . There we see in my opinion startling proof that the sun rotates around the earth and not vice versa. God says there in verse 11 that the sun and the moon stood still in their habitation.......meaning that their habit, the habit of the sun and moon was to move over the earth.....but God caused that habit, that normality to cease.....He caused them to stop and stand still......”the sun and the moon stood still” from their normal habits.
Gino, you also mentioned the four corners of the earth which are mentioned several times in scripture. If God says there are four corners then.....there are. I picture this dome, this terrarium cover resting on a flat earth. Picture a circle almost as large as the dome circle but just a little smaller. Now this inner circle all the way around represents Antarctica...60+ thousand miles around the inner circle. Not if one cut 4 angled passes through this inner circle toward the outer dome circle would not these angled passes from a heavenly view above not look like corners? I believe they would.....all four of them.
Gino, you mentioned a couple times two dimensional viewing of how this earth is laid out. Obviously this is a good approach when one views earth from above as a heavenly view. I believe you will find in scripture that God referenced that as well and He called it ….the face of the earth.
I like to picture the side view with the huge cheese dish cover laying on the flat surface of earth but that flat surface also having great depth downward making what I see..... three dimensional.
What escapes me though is what is outside of the perimeter of the dome cover where it intersects with the flat earth. How far does earth extend in all directions beyond where the circle of the cheese dish intersects the flat earth? Presently there appears to be a 60+ thousand mile circular ice wall at nearly the outside of the cheese dish but what lies beyond that and how far in all directions does the land mass go????
Also I enjoyed your pondering on what lays below the surface of the earth as ….the bottomless pit, hidden chambers, fountains of the deep, foundations of the earth, etc. There may be whole worlds down there for all we know.
Thanks again Gino for the thought provoking and I believe mostly affirmative reply.....but after reading your posts for all these years I wouldn't expect anything less than.....thought provoking.
With well over a hundred creation descriptions given to us by God as to the structure of the earth and to the heavens above..... I fail to see why any Christian would refer to these biblical truths in a manor as you did ..... as “ridiculous distractions”.
You also somehow convinced yourself that the earth is a round ball because you viewed it by looking out the window of a Concorde jet. A jet like most all jets that have concave windows. These concave windows (as you well know) make everything look curved.
And I am puzzled as to why you would pay such credence to this Jewish boy Nathan....... puzzled as to why you think he would have mentioned the layout of the earth and heavens in his vision????
Not trying to start a blowout here.....just addressing or re-addressing what you wrote.
What I tried to do in my recent posts was to describe the massive war / contest (like in Job) where Satan and God are locked in a huge engagement over the souls of mankind. And the biggest deceptive soul stealing ploy that Satan has is to convince all who will listen that we humans are not special, that we were not created by a loving God, but evolved. That the earth is not special and created just for mankind but is an insignificant spec in a limitless cosmos. That earth is not the (flat) center of God's creation with all the celestial objects above continually circling / rotating around the same spot in the sky......the north star Polaris.
Satan through false science and many willing participants has convinced mankind of all manors of false science and reality in an effort to deceive and then separate them from the love of the Father. In my humble opinion he has done a stellar job. Under Satan's command are as God warned..... the rulers of darkness of this age and the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. Some of his most variable tools within these classifications are NASA, Hollywood and the mass media services of the planet. Collectively they have lied to us a billion billion times over and have created a complete false reality as to where and how we live. It's like the Matrix movie only sadly it's reality not fiction.
After the rapture the deception will get much worse. God said....that if possible, even the elect would be deceived......But that's not possible because He is going to take us out of here before Satan can play those cards...... otherwise the the greater deception to come would even deceive and steal many of us from Our Father's love.
Bless you Fay.....and bless you John G, Kathryn and Gino
PS.... Just one more thought....they say that with the powerful cameras that take pictures from way above earth they can read the date on a dime coin laying on the sidewalk and they say that there are 60,000 plus satellites up there and they say that the earth is a spinning ball. So.... on the very bottom of this spinning earth ball would be Australia and New Zealand. So when those so called orbiting satellites are circling earth and taking pictures and have the ability to read the date of a dime from hundreds of miles away......why don't we have pictures of all the skyscrapers in Australia hanging upside-down like bats on the roof of a cave. These buildings are on the very bottom of the so called ball and should be in an inverted posture if a picture was taken of them from a lateral satellite position. Do we have pictures of the skyscrapers in Australia inverted and hanging like bats on the roof of a cave? I think we all know the answer to that.
If we only believed what God has told us in scripture about the layout of the earth and heavens above and not Satan's false science we would never even have to ponder such a ridiculous prospect / question.
It's really to bad that these poor Aussies spend their entire lives basically upside-down on the bottom of this spinning ball. Do you suppose their faces are redder there because of the inversion and the blood rushing to their heads?? ☺