Hi John and Doves.

Some very interesting angles and arguments are coming forth in the ongoing discussion about John the Baptist and his status in the Kingdom of Heaven.   I can imagine Ted sitting at his computer with a big grin on his face, as he contemplates another juicy “bone of contention” coming his way that he can grind his teeth on, and hopefully demolish.  Yesterday he wrote this..... 

To EAR - 3/3
May I say, valient effort.  Your solution to the conundrum of getting John the Baptist into the Kingdom of Heaven and him still be lower than the least of those in Heaven is that  "he was ONLY BORN OF WOMAN, not OF THE SPIRIT "

Only problem, scripture records that he was born of the Spirit, in fact before he was born of woman, i.e. "he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb".

The challenge I'll leave you is to find anyone else in Scripture that the Bible records as being born of the Spirit before being born of water.

 

...But today I must reply as follows -

Sorry Ted, I can’t let you “off the hook” as easily as that.    John the Baptist was the last of the Old Testament prophets of the dispensation of the law.    John, in his life on earth, did not come under the “grace” offered through the atoning blood of Jesus Christ in the New Covenant, but that does not mean he has been excluded from the Kingdom of Heaven.
As such, his position is different from those who lived to receive atonement, and the baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire from the Son of God, at Pentecost.

Firstly, to answer your challenge!!   Jesus Christ alone was “born of the Spirit”, by Mary, before he was born of water in birth, and before he was Baptised in water by John.  (I think that is scriptural!!)   You did say “anyone else” in scripture!

Secondly, John was “filled with the spirit “ (whether in the womb, or from the womb) – not born of the spirit.    There were no O.T. people who were “born of the Spirit” or experienced new birth – it just wasn’t possible until after Pentecost.   John the Baptist was born of Elizabeth and Zacharias.   Elizabeth “bore the pregnancy” only after Zacharias had gone home to her, (whoopee!) and Zacharias bore the “pregnant silence”! 

The “new birth” as we understand it is a secondary experience after our physical natural birth, hence Jesus conversation with Nicodemus.    In the Old Testament dispensation the Holy Spirit came upon those who God selected to do special tasks, e.g. Gideon, where the Hebrew indicates that the Holy Spirit “clothed himself with Gideon” a rather amazing picture!  These were temporary fillings, which were for a season and a time – e.g. King Saul.   They gave abilities for the task ahead – Exodus 31:3, Judges 3:10, Judges 14:6 – without necessarily transforming the person morally.     

Thirdly, you are “playing with words” and placing a great deal of unintended emphasis on the word “least in the Kingdom of heaven”– apparently using it as a yardstick to indicate that those who qualify for “least” reside at the outer boundary of the Kingdom – and because they are greater than John the Baptist, he is therefore placed outside that boundary!  

This is wrong thinking – Jesus was using John the Baptist as an illustration, comparing the effects of the Old Covenant with the privileges and effects of the New Covenant.    I.e. the “best of the best” in the Old Covenant of law and prophecy, can’t “hold a candle” to the effects and privileges of those who experience the New Covenant in Christ.   Jesus was not saying that John was outside of the Kingdom.

The Bible teaches that there are many status levels in the Kingdom, (rulers and citizens) and many different rewards (thrones and crowns).  Perhaps a better way of thinking is to consider the complete Kingdom in concentric circles, just as Jesus had concentric circles of followers around him during his ministry on earth.  i.e. the three, the twelve, the seventy, the one hundred and twenty etc.    John, in his O.T. status was not in the same privileged position as even “the weakest believer who has the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ risen from the dead.” 

John never saw or experienced the Kingdom of Heaven on earth, as others did, because he was locked up and died before it came in its fullness and power.  He only heard of Jesus activities via his disciples, but that does not exclude him ultimately from the Kingdom of Heaven.   His status will be the same as other Old Testament saints and heroes.   Even the thief on the cross was to be in Paradise with Jesus that day – (but I can imagine you getting your “jaws” around that too, and arguing that that is a different place!!!!)  Theoretically, depending on whether Jesus died first, would determine whether the thief on the cross was in the O.T. dispensation or in the New Covenant.

Jesus regarded John as the last and greatest member of the prophetic succession: “the law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached. (Luke 16:16).  Therefore while unsurpassed in personal stature, he was (in respect of privilege) less than the least in the kingdom of God; he stood on the threshold of the new order as its herald without experiencing it on earth.   Only Jesus preached the Kingdom of God and its coming effects on earth, because only He could.

John the Baptist was privileged indeed to be chosen as the messenger who came before the Messiah to prepare the way before him (Matt 11:10), but that is as far as he got in his physical life.   In Jesus’ estimation, John was the promised Elijah of Malachi 4:5 who was to come and complete his ministry of “restoration” on the eve of ‘the great and dreadful day of the Lord’.    

John was unique in that he experienced the trinity first hand at the Baptism of Jesus – the voice of the Father, the dove of the Holy Spirit, and the presence of the Lamb of God.   Jesus gave him a little inkling of what the Kingdom of Heaven was like, when He told His disciples to report back to John what was happening – i.e. “...the blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them...” (Matt. 11:2-6) - the very features which the prophets had foretold as characteristic of the “restoration age”. 

Jesus implied that the Kingdom had indeed come because of His presence on earth, and because the rule of God was being exhibited in His life and miracles.  Matt. 10:7, 12:28,  Mark 9:1,  Luke 10:9-11.

Finally, any other disputes you might have over John the Baptist’s status can be sorted out when you get to heaven and talk with him yourself!

Luke 13:28b-30   “...when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God...   And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.  And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.” 

It looks as if the final status of Kingdom dwellers will be decided at God’s discretion.   If John the Baptist was indeed the last and greatest of the prophets, he may yet be given first place as the friend of the bridegroom.

Regards and God bless.     EAR