Bill Griese (26 June 2011)
"Reply to Lyle Cooper"

Reply to Lyle Cooper:

Hi Lyle,

In Monday's post, you openly admitted that your 'Sixth Seal is Pre-70th week' view places the 'great tribulation' mentioned in Rev 7:14 prior to the whole 70th week. Matthew Chapter 24 clearly asserts that there is only one period of time called the 'great tribulation' and it follows the abomination of desolation.

Matthew 24:14 KJV "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. (The Lord Jesus Christ makes it clear that there is only one 'great tribulation' and it follows the abomination of desolation). 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. 23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here [is] Christ, or there; believe [it] not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, [he is] in the secret chambers; believe [it] not. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days (great tribulation) shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: (This is the Sixth Seal) 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

The timing of the Sixth Seal of Rev 6:12-17 occurs in Matt 24:29-31 at Christ's Second Coming in the sky, and then all the elect are gathered together by the angels. This is the 'great multitude, which no man could number' that is seen in Rev 7:9-17 coming out of the 'great tribulation'. This gathering together is the Pre-Wrath Rapture, which I believe is the 2nd Rapture event, and which I believe occurs about one year prior to the end of the 70th week. The Wrath of God lasts about the remaining one year. The word 'Day' is used in numerous scriptures describing the Wrath of God, i.e. 'Day of the Lord' and 'Day of Vengeance'. A 'Prophetic Week' is seven years, therefore a 'Prophetic Day' is one year.

Isaiah 34:8 "For it is the day of the LORD'S vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion."  A "day of the Lord's vengeance" refers to the wrath of God, and "a year of recompences" indicates that this period will last for about one year, the seventh 'day' of the 70th Week.

Isaiah 63:4 "For the day of vengeance is in my heart, and the year of my redeemed has come." The "day of vengeance" is linked here to "the year of my redeemed". During this year, God will take vengeance on unbelievers, but all believers will be raptured beforehand at the Pre-Wrath Rapture, which follows the opening of the Sixth Seal. This tells us when the Sixth Seal is opened. The 70th week has seven 'days' of one year each.

Isaiah 61:2 "To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;" The "year of the Lord" and "day of vengeance" are connected again here, indicating they are synonymous.

The Lord Jesus Christ also linked Noah's Flood, which lasted for about one year, and was the Wrath of God in it's time, to the end time events immediately preceding the Second Coming, further illustrating that the Wrath of God lasts for about one year.

Matt 24:37-39 "But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Isaiah 13:9-13 "Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. (Moon terminology matches Matt 24:29-31) And I will punish the world for [their] evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir. Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger."

Joel 2:31 "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come."

Rev 6: 12-17 "And I beheld when he had opened the Sixth Seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

Lyle, you and a couple others have gone back and forth with me, basically over what boils down to the "Moon terminology differences" in the above verses. Your view claims that these differences indicate two different events, while I have maintained that they are all one event. Now you have admitted that your view requires a 'great tribulation' prior to the beginning of the 70th week. I would like to suggest to you that you reexamine your view. The correct explanation for the "Moon terminology differences" is that scripture sees no difference between the moon turning into blood and the moon not causing her normal light to shine. Notice that Joel 2:31 and Isaiah 13:9-13 are both referencing the 'Day of the Lord' which is the Wrath of God, and Joel 2:31 says the Moon will be turned 'into blood' and Isaiah 13:9-13 says 'Moon shall not cause her light to shine'. This proves that scripture sees no difference between these phrases and that all these scriptures are referencing the same event. Therefore, you can't place the Rev 6:12-17 Sixth Seal at the beginning of the 70th week and then place the Matt 24:29-31 Second Coming in the sky at the end of the 70th week, as your view attempts to do. The fact that a 'Prophetic Day' means one year, places this singular event one year before the end of the 70th week. Therefore, the Pre-Wrath Rapture, which scripture calls the 'gathering together of the elect', occurs about one year before the end of the 70th week.

I also, do believe in an earlier 'Open Door' Rapture event, per Christ's promise to the Philadelphia Church in Rev 3:10. This occurring near the Midpoint of the 70th week, and which I believe will be under the cover of a nuclear and biological World War 3, and will not be perceived by the world at large as having taken place. I believe the 'Open Door' Rapture is conditional on repentance. Philadelphia and Smyrna were the only churches that were not told they needed to repent. Philadelphia was told they were 'worthy to escape' tribulation, and Smyrna was told that they would only have tribulation 'ten days'. The other five churches were told that they needed to repent, which indicates that if they repented, they too could go through the "Open Door'. I believe Smyrna's 'ten days' are a timing clue, which may mean 'ten days' after the abomination of desolation. This 'ten days' could give many a chance to wake up and repent. However, I am not setting this as a date, and I certainly wouldn't advise waiting until the abomination of desolation to repent.

Luke 21:33-36 KJV "Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and [so] that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."


Bill Griese