Thank you Jim,   That is such welcome information: __________________________________ Every major English Bible before the KJV translated that as "departing first," meaning the rapture.  I have seen the proof. _____________________________________   I hate when I see someone using this scripture to say that we must be here until after Antichrist is revealed when I believe that it is Paul's argument for just the opposite. Indeed, Paul's reason for writing this letter is to encourage those who were fearing that they were in the tribulation period already. Why on earth would he tell them to be encouraged if the news that he is telling them is negative? "Hey saints, there's a falling away of you from the truth so be encouraged, yippee!" And, "Hey saints, Antichrist is coming too and will make war against you and overcome you so cheer up now!" I became very encouraged while listening to David Flynn on one of the Steve Quayle interviews when David gave this verse as one of his reasons for believing that there will be no rapture before 2012. Because I have tremendous respect for his work, I tend to give him credit in areas like prophecy also. Yet when he stated this, I knew that I knew something that he did not. This verse is not saying what he thinks it is saying. I knew this in my spirit but Jim, you have just given me a solid external proof that my inner witness was correct. I love that!   David Flynn has also stated that there is s "symmetry" to the history of Jesus' salvation and that mathematically, it must end on December 21, 2012, therefore he looks to this date for the rapture and other significant events. However Paul tells us that as in Adam all die so in Christ shall all be made alive but each in his own order or tagmati, which is a structured military style procession or rank and file parade-like order. Not all will be saved or harvested at one time or in the same order or rank. Some will go ahead of others. Indeed some have already gone with Jesus after His resurrection and when He ascended, he took the first handful. Next He will come back for the two loaves (us) and then, Paul says, cometh the end, or those at the end of the procession. Which is the tribulation saints likened unto the gleanings left in the field after the main harvest. These gleanings were left to the poor and the stranger. They were the grain that fell back to earth during harvest and was not to be picked back up again by the reapers but was left to the poor and stranger. (Remember, this is what Ruth was picking up, called gleanings.) Also the corners of the field were not harvested at all but were likewise left to the poor and stranger as a type of welfare. These represent tribulation saints who must go through the tribulation because they did not become known disciples of Jesus beforehand to be included in the two loaves.   In short, I can lovingly agree with David Flynn that his date marks the final time of salvation for this planet but I must respectfully disagree with him when it comes to his stating that there will be no rapture prior to his date. Yes, David, there will be and I will be in it.   (I lost my own computer to failure of it recently and am on a borrowed one so I cannot easily add scripture references as before but I trust that you all know the scriptures I refer to. My computer is in the shop but there is little hope for it, whaa!)   Thank you again Jim, and I will see you very soon!   Barry Amundsen