Hi Donna :),

 

   I never said that God did not discipline those He loves. That is the key,  "....those He loves". 

 

 God's judgement is twofold. It is His wrath upon the wicked, and discipline upon His children.

 

   To say that God does not forgive all iniquity, past, present, and  (yes) future is to say that the Sacrifice for sin through the BLOOD of Jesus Christ is insufficient. It is not.

 

   I think you and CAPS http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/june2006/caps621.htm

 

are confusing what I am saying.  Whether great or small [as judged by human standards] -- to God, sin is sin. Period.

 

Gossip is just as much sin as homosexuality. The same goes for idolatry, which comes in many different forms. 

 

1 Cor. 4:5

 

Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: an then shall every man have praise of God.

 

All sin has been judged for Believers at the Cross of Calvary.  And in CAPS very own words.

 

"This is simple truth. It is not complicated."

 

When  I said that God does "not rate sin". I was talking about Believers.  God will reward those at the Bema Judgement not as much for works, but the motive of our hearts.

 

For example:

 

None of us walk in the Spirit at all times as Believers. The works of the flesh (good works, and our sin, --which is walking in the flesh} are your "wood, hay, and stubble."  We, as Christians are commanded to know others by their fruit, but are to judge nothing before the time when it comes to another person's salvation.

 

The initial post that started this all, was a blanket statement that all homosexuals were going to hell, and that those who say, "God hates the sin, but not the sinner" is not accurate, since God does not send "sin" to hell.

 

I simply stated that -- whether one is guilty of any other sin besides homosexuality, that God does not see it as "less worse, as in varying degrees" of that particular sin, than homosexuality.

 

Now, my statements have been misconstrued, so this will be my last.

 

Under the New Covenant, God does not rate sin. I will say it again. Under New Covenant, ALL sin is forgiven at the cross. There are no "varying degrees" of sin.

 

 

If you are interested in how this works, study out the two goats that Israel was commanded to take on the Day of Atonement. One was commanded to be sacrificed, while the other was sent out into the wilderness. The first has to do with PARDON, which is the legal act of justification, which means to be made innocent.

 

The second one has to do with forgiveness, which means to "send away". (In which they did with that goat)

 

Through justification, all sin is forgiven. Period.

 

In that sense, God does not rate sin. In fact, God is so merciful, if He were to bring up all our sin at the time of conversion, we would be so overcome we wouldn't be able to handle it. Many times, the Holy Spirit brings up things in our past years later, and we realize (horrified) that we need to repent. That is God's work of GRACE in us.

 

When I say, "God does not rate sin" in Believer's lives, I am correct, because we will not be judged for our sins at the Bema Judgement, but our works.  But we are not talking about our works, but sin which was already handled at the Cross by Jesus' Sacrifice, past, present, and future.   See http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/june2006/caps621.htm

 

Hebrews 8:7-13 (King James Version)

King James Version (KJV)

 7For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

 8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

 9Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

 10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

 11And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

 12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. (Unrighteousness is "breaking the law"  God says, He will be merciful toward our unrighteousness, and our sins and iniquities -- well, He just forgets them. Our deviations from the truth, and our "wanderings".....God just forgets them like footprints that the sand blows in upon.)

 13In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

 

When this letter was written to the Hebrews, the Old Covenant was "ready to vanish away". Well, guess what? It has vanished away.  Notice that the author of Hebrews does not say that God found fault with it, but "them".   The Old Covenant [am talking about the "Law"] was given to Israel for one reason. And that is to show them that they couldn't keep it. That is why they needed [as well as us] a Savior.

 

Paul writes in Romans 4

Romans 4:1-8 (King James Version)

King James Version (KJV)

Romans 4

 1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

 2For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

 3For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

 4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

 5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

 6Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

 7Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

 8Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Notice who God justifies:  It is the ungodly.  Paul quoted David from Ps. 32, who was already beginning under the Old Covenant to have a revelation of this.

 

When men begin to preach legalism then it becomes a tool of death.

Notice 2 Cor 5:

14For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

 15And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

 16Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

 17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

 18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

 19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

 20Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

 21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Many of us have been erroneously taught that when we get saved, our name goes into the Lamb's Book of Life. That is not true. Moses prayed that if God would not be merciful toward Israel, he asked that his name be "blotted out" of the Lamb's Book of Life. Every person's name is in the Lamb's book of life because of Calvary. Those who don't accept Him, have their name "blotted out." That is how good our God is.

A good sermon on this is "Not Counting Our Trespasses" by Pastor Mike Miller, of Father's House Ministries in Fort Collins, Colorado. God gave him a revelation of His Grace.  He correctly states that we look at sin from our perspective of sin into the Righteousness of God. God, however, views sin in light of His Righteousness into sin. Big difference.

This is demonstrated in Genesis

Genesis 3

 1Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

 2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

 3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

 4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

 5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

 6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Question: Was the tree good for food? No. God had said not to eat of it, or they would surely die. (see Genesis 2:17)

 

The point is that Eve's understanding was darkened, and because of the fall, we do not understand God's ways.

 

I know that God's judgement will come down upon all the nations, of which the U.S. will certainly also be judged with the whole world. But let us not be too quick to judge particular sins. Remember, Doves, "mercy triumphs over judgement."  This goes without saying, that theologically speaking, if a denomination twists God's Word in support of a lifestyle, then we are commanded to judge [discern] and expose the works of darkness. (Eph. 5).  Individuals are another matter, as God may be dealing with them.

I hope I have cleared up any confusion that some of the Doves are having on this subject. God forgives ALL sin, at the Cross, and doesn't rate some sins worse than others. If that person has accepted Jesus Christ by faith, then his sin is forgiven, past, present, and future.

 

Praise the Lord for His infinite mercy.

 

Mary