DP (13 July 2013)
"Response to Gino, ''who are the Jews''"

Gino, you asked the following:
''Were you saying that the physical nation of the Jews are not the false Jews mentioned in 2:9?

Or were you saying that the physical nation of the Jews in Johnís time, were false Jews?

Or were you saying that the physical nation of the Jews in our time, are false Jews?''


I do not claim to know all things. But, in the first century it was clear that Paul, for example, had to 'fight' Judaisers who said 'you must be circumcised and keep the law of Moses' to be saved. It was a ''big deal'' in Paul's time.


John wrote Revelation later than Paul's writings.

So it is my opinion that John was also saying that those who 'claim they are Jews, but are not, but are of the synagogue of Satan' was speaking of the Jews back then who taught the same heresies that Paul had to fight.


Notice also that in chapter 11 of Rev. that Jerusalem is called spiritually ''Sodom and Egypt''..........going by memory. So, yes both Paul and John evidently had to fight the 1st century Jews who believed that salvation was based on law keeping.


Now, as far as the Jewish nation.............or the nation of Israel, Paul also taught Clearly in Romans chs 9-11, especially ch 11 that even though the nation of Israel has been rejected for rejecting Christ, that the entire nation will be Grafted back into the Abrahamic stock/tree.


So, no, says Paul, God has not cast off the physical nation of Israel which includes the Jews. He will bring them back into the ''salvation tree'' of Abraham. Currently the Church is in that ''salvation tree''.......but in Romans ch 11 it is clear God will bring Israel back in also! ''And so all Israel (the physical nation) shall be saved....the scripture says.


Back to the book of Revelation, with the above understandings, John did refer to Jews who are of the ''synagogue of Satan''.


 For me at least, this tells that the 144,000 of the tribes of Israel of which Judah is a part and in some cases represents the entire nation........is not speaking of the literal nation of Israel.....based on the internal evidence of the book of Revelation itself.


These same 144,000 are later called Firstfruits unto God. This is a description of the Church Overcomers......not the physical nation of Israel which comes to salvation later.


These are my thoughts. Others may disagree. See my most recent post on the 24 Elders and the 144,000.


Certainly nobody believes that the 24 Elders represent only 24 people that will be raptured. Therefore it is my belief that likewise the number 144,000 represents a Group, not limited to the number of 144,000.