Barry Amundsen (29 July 2011)
"Laurie Hane Line upon line"

Hi Laurie Hane,
 
I completely agree with what you say about how we must learn scripture "line upon line and precept upon precept here a little and there a little" etc. However this is a double edge sword so to speak because the subject of that scripture is that those who will not be taught by submitting themselves to God are going to be snared by their own pride and caught up in a gross error all the while thinking they are correct:
 
Isaiah 28:
7.  But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink [false doctrine] are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.
 8.  For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.
 9.  Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand [true] doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
 10.  For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
 11.  For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
 12.  To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
 13.  But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
 14.  Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men
 
What this is saying is that God requires that we be submitted to Him and worship Him in spirit and in truth and when we are, He will teach us what His word means. (No man lights a candle and hides it under a basket, but puts it on a stand where it gives light to all who enter the room, God intends His word to be understood but not for outsiders.) It is very easy to learn from God as Jesus said, take my yoke on you and learn from Me for My yoke is easy and my burden is light. God delights in giving His people knowledge and wisdom but at the same time God does not delight in those who think they can teach themselves. This is just another form of rebellion and has dire consequences. I think that description in the above scripture is true of our present day. There is much doctrine today that is not taught by God but is very difficult to sort out and leads one down its confusing path just as any cult will do, (Ever read some of the Mormon stuff for example?) God always resists the proud and the "wise and prudent" and allows them to be led into error because they refuse to submit to His Spirit.
 
Matthew 11:
25.  At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
 26.  Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
 27.  All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
 28.  Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, [under the false doctrinal burdens of man's making] and I will give you rest. [Notice verse 12 of Isaiah 28 above speaks of learning truth as rest from all the error]
 29.  Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
 30.  For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
 
It is pride that leads someone to believe that he can "study the scriptures" and come to understand them by much study. Even the Pharisees were told by Jesus
 
John 5:
39.  Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
 40.  And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
 
But life and truth are in knowing Jesus not in studying the scriptures and drawing conclusions based upon one's understanding of them.
 
When you know Jesus He through His Holy Spirit leads you into all truth.
 
1 Corinthians 8
 1.  ... Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
 2.  And if any man think that he knoweth anything, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
 3.  But if any man love God, the same is known of him.
 
Laurie, I agree with you that our works after salvation are done by the power of Christ as we yield ourselves to Him everyday etc. and that apart from Him we can do nothing. It all is through faith hope and love and for faith we are given Christ's righteousness. But putting away faith is shipwreck, even in the area of how we learn doctrine.
 
1 Thessalonians 5:
23.  And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
 24.  Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.
 
I guess my bottom line point was that if the teaching about "spirit salvation" vs. "soul salvation" were accurate then it should resonate with one's spirit as given by the Holy Spirit and not require endles argument and interpretations of scripture to prop it up intellectually. To me one is either saved or not saved based on his relationship with Jesus Christ.
 
John 3:
36.  He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
 
I do believe that many who think they are "saved" will unfortunately be left behind at the rapture but the reason is because they do not believe on the Son, not because they failed to perform enough to get their soul saved. Does that make it clearer? That is my position. By believe, I mean with their lives, not mere intellectual belief for many in Jesus day did the same thing:
 
42.  Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:
 43.  For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.
 44.  Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.
 45.  And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.
 46.  I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
 
There we have it if you believe on Jesus you will not abide in darkness - outer or otherwise!